botched road markings

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jnty
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Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

AlexBr967 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 15:09
MotorwayGuy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 13:13 Another mess.
Ignoring the road markings, what's the point of the separated cycle lane if they're going to put a traffic light on it despite no conflicts other than the pedestrian crossing?
In fairness, the lights are green on the cycle lane and red on the main road suggesting they only protect the pedestrian crossing. I generally think that a zebra is usually enough in this instance but councils can be nervous about it, especially if high peak flows are anticipated.
TS
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Re: botched road markings

Post by TS »

jnty wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 15:30
AlexBr967 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 15:09
MotorwayGuy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 13:13 Another mess.
Ignoring the road markings, what's the point of the separated cycle lane if they're going to put a traffic light on it despite no conflicts other than the pedestrian crossing?
In fairness, the lights are green on the cycle lane and red on the main road suggesting they only protect the pedestrian crossing. I generally think that a zebra is usually enough in this instance but councils can be nervous about it, especially if high peak flows are anticipated.
Surely there could also potentially be conflict of movement if a cyclist is turning right out of the side-road?

It would be quite a minor conflict as it would not involve a motor car, but still something potentially to be avoided. I wouldn't want to be the right-turning cyclist, alongside a right-turning car, who is forced to brake or swerve because another cyclist was coming straight across the junction at full pelt.
TS
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Re: botched road markings

Post by TS »

WhiteBlueRed wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 13:42 The original STOP sign marking, which consisted of 2 solid thin lines, similarly to 2 dashed thin lines for Give Way.
It looks freshly painted, and originally this was a Give Way. I wonder why they decided to change to a STOP sign, and why they decided to go with the old version rather than the newer one.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84103 ... 8192?hl=en
And can you even have a STOP line wihtout a STOP sign to go with it? I guess it is a private road just there, though, and not the public highway??
jnty
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Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

TS wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 16:13
jnty wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 15:30
AlexBr967 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 15:09

Ignoring the road markings, what's the point of the separated cycle lane if they're going to put a traffic light on it despite no conflicts other than the pedestrian crossing?
In fairness, the lights are green on the cycle lane and red on the main road suggesting they only protect the pedestrian crossing. I generally think that a zebra is usually enough in this instance but councils can be nervous about it, especially if high peak flows are anticipated.
Surely there could also potentially be conflict of movement if a cyclist is turning right out of the side-road?

It would be quite a minor conflict as it would not involve a motor car, but still something potentially to be avoided. I wouldn't want to be the right-turning cyclist, alongside a right-turning car, who is forced to brake or swerve because another cyclist was coming straight across the junction at full pelt.
Interesting point but I think the layout means it would be more like a merge and visibility is very good so it should be obvious to both parties what is going on. The worst I can imagine is an uninitiated right turning cyclist being grumpy about it and assuming the straight on cyclist ran a red.

Really they should have laid out the junction so all movements can be made on the cycle lane with appropriate give way/merge markings where necessary. Given the willingness to provide low level signals at crossings I don't think it would need to compromise capacity for other users if that would be inappropriate given flows.
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Chris5156
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Re: botched road markings

Post by Chris5156 »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 13:13 Brighton has a load of dodgy cycle lane markings, like here where there are double yellow lines, no signs and a solid line across an access road.
Similar situation here.
A random red patch.
A mess.
Another mess.
Ugh.
Yuck. But none of these are out of place, driving around Brighton and Hove you quickly find that the roads are, in general, really messy - often with very faded markings on very worn and pitted surfaces, a jumble of streetlights, ancient traffic lights, bodged roadsigns, pavements broken up where tree roots have lifted slabs up to form ridges nearly a foot high, etc etc. The places in your links where the current faded road markings are overlaid on several earlier generations of road markings that are still visible, is not unusual.

None of that is unique to Brighton but it does seem to be their house style, unfortunately.
swissferry
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Re: botched road markings

Post by swissferry »

Think the road's been resurfaced since GSV has passed and the alternative turn left and right arrows have been repainted.
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MotorwayGuy
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Re: botched road markings

Post by MotorwayGuy »

swissferry wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 16:43 Think the road's been resurfaced since GSV has passed and the alternative turn left and right arrows have been repainted.
Looks like they had trouble with the give way marking as well!
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9406549 ... 384!8i8192
AndrewGPaul
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Re: botched road markings

Post by AndrewGPaul »

That’s a dodgy join between Google’s images, not a real thing. You can see the tarmac patch and scrapes are repeated.
BlackfordHill
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Re: botched road markings

Post by BlackfordHill »

That’s a dodgy join between Google’s images, not a real thing. You can see the tarmac patch and scrapes are repeated.
I think MotorwayGuy was referring to the triangle on the road which seems to have been facing the wrong way at one point.
Jonathan24
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Re: botched road markings

Post by Jonathan24 »

BlackfordHill wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 13:15
That’s a dodgy join between Google’s images, not a real thing. You can see the tarmac patch and scrapes are repeated.
I think MotorwayGuy was referring to the triangle on the road which seems to have been facing the wrong way at one point.
There's a clearer photo of it in the July 2016 streetview imagery:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9406901 ... 312!8i6656

How did they manage that? It was painted like that sometime between April 12 and July 16 and the road doesn't look like it was resurfaced. Is it not just a case of repainting what was already there?
swissferry
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Re: botched road markings

Post by swissferry »

I'm used to right turn lanes approaching roundabouts being marked as straight on rather than right, but here's a traffic light junction which does the same. I can just about accept the left lane can go straight on but not the right one.
tom66
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Re: botched road markings

Post by tom66 »

swissferry wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 20:25 I'm used to right turn lanes approaching roundabouts being marked as straight on rather than right, but here's a traffic light junction which does the same. I can just about accept the left lane can go straight on but not the right one.
I don't see the error there. You're not "turning off" so it counts as going ahead. It's the same logic as a roundabout with ahead markings but the ahead direction being past 180 degrees. Since it's still the same route it is "ahead".
jnty
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Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

swissferry wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 20:25 I'm used to right turn lanes approaching roundabouts being marked as straight on rather than right, but here's a traffic light junction which does the same. I can just about accept the left lane can go straight on but not the right one.
I suspect the aim here is to avoid ambiguity with the immediate junction further on. The absence of a right arrow makes it clear that straight on just means 'proceed' and does not refer in any way to the following junction. It also avoids a 'left and right' arrow which designers seem to avoid where possible, possibly because they're not very legible. Arguably it also encourages people in the inside lane to go forward then turn rather than immediately turn and cut up folk in their outside and highlights very clearly that it is a two-lane one way road and not two way.
jnty
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Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

I go through here just infrequently enough that I keep getting caught out by it but I've finally wised up - the 'ahead and left' marking here is simply wrong - it's left only.
The whole junction is a bit of of a bodge really with really unhelpful destinations used - 'city centre' travelling NE means the 'old town' exit if you're travelling SW and realistically both of those exits can be used to access either destination depending on exactly which part you're travelling to - indeed the two destinations probably overlap in most locals' minds. And "other routes" is a terrible destination to use painted on roads where it might be the only thing you're able to see.
AlexBr967
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Re: botched road markings

Post by AlexBr967 »

On another note, what the hell is this? You can't mix 2 aspect bicycle lights and 3 aspect lights like that can you?
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the cheesecake man
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Re: botched road markings

Post by the cheesecake man »

:confused: :thumsdown: How about this horror in Featherstone? Are there two lanes here or one? Most likely there used to be two, then it was crudely changed to one, then the markings have worn so much you can't tell which set you're supposed to follow.
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MotorwayGuy
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Re: botched road markings

Post by MotorwayGuy »

the cheesecake man wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:49 :confused: :thumsdown: How about this horror in Featherstone? Are there two lanes here or one? Most likely there used to be two, then it was crudely changed to one, then the markings have worn so much you can't tell which set you're supposed to follow.
You can see in the older images that before the Lidl was built it did briefly open into two lanes but only led into one on the other side which is pointless. What's also interesting is in the other direction technically drivers turning left into Lidl have to wait for a green signal but cyclists don't.
swissferry
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Re: botched road markings

Post by swissferry »

MotorwayGuy wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 16:14 You can see in the older images that before the Lidl was built it did briefly open into two lanes but only led into one on the other side which is pointless.
It does look like it was a little narrow for two into one but theoretically it should have increased capacity through the junction. Some drivers do reduce capacity by not merging in turn.
tom66
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Re: botched road markings

Post by tom66 »

I'd love to know how a self-driving car is going to parse the truly awful road markings we have in the UK. Not only are they botched like this frequently, they're also often worn down to nothing, or, in some cases, the old erased marks are now exposed partially (especially common in roadworks areas) which creates terrible ambiguity.
BeenEverywhere
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Re: botched road markings

Post by BeenEverywhere »

28 High St
https://maps.app.goo.gl/o7dJgPxPsqa5Cpm99

So can I park in the bay where the van is or is it a double yellow?
Been everywhere... can't remember any of it

Was fun though :laugh:
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