Worst road numbering

[Dadge]

Bad examples of road numbering come up here quite often, but which (a) area and (b) single example, would you nominate as the worst?
I've just been looking at a map of Swindon and the numbering there looks like a nonsense, including the B4289 becoming the A4289 becoming the B4289 again.** (And the latest OS map shows an A313 in the centre - a deliberate mistake??)
Maybe when all the votes are in there could be a Bad Numbering Top (or Bottom?) Ten?
** By the way, are there any other examples of same-number A and B roads meeting?
Adrian

[si404]

i nominate the Amersham-Wycombe-Miadenhed road. I cannot see why this was ever changed to A404 from A416 it makes no sense really.
i also nominate any number just cos it's free and is catchy and it'seven worse when out of zone (I-99 in PA is a famous example among US roadgeeks) . A3400 A42 A14. yuck. Axx00 and Axxx0 are just grrr.
Simon

[PeterA5145]

The renumbering of the A427 west of Market Harborough to A4304/A4304/B4027 surely deserves a prize.

Any A-road that needlessly turns into a B-road.

Regards,

Peter

[c2R]

The renumbering of the A6 or A5are definitelysins, but farworse are the renumbering of the A11, or the A604....
Chris

[Jonathan B4027]

<<The renumbering of the A427 west of Market Harborough to A4304/A4304/B4027 surely deserves a prize.>>

Especially when they make a duplicate number from it....(B4027)

[Earl_Purple]

In Bayham Street, NW1, there are signs to both the A502 and the A5202, and in one place the sign gets them confused and directs to Kings Cross A502 when it means A5202, the A502 heading NW from Camden.
There is no left turn from Parkway ontoChalk Farm Road(A502) nor is there a right turn from Camden Road into St Pancras Way (A5202), so traffic for both routes is directed down Bayham Street. Traffic going further down the A502 than the junction of Jamestown Road / Hawley Crescent would be better advised to enter it through one of those two roads, but any traffic wanting the busy section at the beginning can only reach it through going around the block.
Traffic heading for Kings Cross is directed through at least one unclassified road - also fairly uncommon.
By the way, are Parkway, Bayham Street and Delancey Street (NW1) part of the A503 or part of the A4201? Where exactly does one end and the other begin?

[A303ytfc]

A google search shows a few references to the A313 in Swindon by the BBC
http://www.google.com/search?q=a313+swi ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Maybe the Beeb are using the same OS maps with the deliberate, or not,
error.

[t1(M)]

Here's the A1000 and B1000 in Welwynis a good example

[Viator]

I was wondering has anyone, in the five years since this was first raised here, been able to observe the "actually existing reality" of the numbering of Ocotal Way in Swindon as the out-of-zone AND duplicate "A313" (surely meant to have been A4313)?

As of May 2009, all the maps I've been able to consult are showing this road as being either the A313 or unclassified, and recent web references include:
- Swindon Borough Council - Members' Bulletin - Temporary road closures list (27/28.03.08)
- BBC Wiltshire - Traffic bulletins (05/15.12.08)
- St John's Ambulance, Swindon - map (from GBMaps.com)
- Swindon Borough Council - Planning Assessment

The only references to Ocotal Way being numbered A4313 are in SABRE, its associated sites and derivatives. As an authoritative (the most authoritative?) source on UK road numbering, we need to ensure we're reporting what number actually is being used -- even if it's one that should never have been employed here in the first place!

[Jeni]

Have you even thought to look at what it is signed as on the ground, or contact the authority concerned? At the moment it sounds like you are demanding we change things based on a mapping error. I'm more inclined to trust what is shown on OSM really http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.56 ... 87&zoom=16 as it is much more likely to reflect the actual numbering on the ground.

Just look at the numbering in the area, and honestly say you don't think this is a mapping error?

[wrinkly]

Is it well known on SABRE that in August 2005 the DfT published this response to a Freedom of Information Act request about road numbering?

Was it somebody from SABRE who made the request?

[mittfh]

Any A-road that needlessly turns into a B-road.

It's rumoured that the reason the A452 suddenly takes an unannounced diversion through Kenilworth, and the old course becomes a B road, was because of the ford adjacent to Abbey Fields. At the time, the road was apparently Trunk, and you allegedly can't run a trunk road through a ford.

Or unclassified (usually without any physical changes to the road)...

The former A429 through Leek Wooton for example. The road comes out of Warwick, then loses its classification immediately after the A46 flies overhead until reaching St. John's Gyratory in Kenilworth...

[gazzaman28]

Any A-road that needlessly turns into a B-road.

It's rumoured that the reason the A452 suddenly takes an unannounced diversion through Kenilworth, and the old course becomes a B road, was because of the ford adjacent to Abbey Fields. At the time, the road was apparently Trunk, and you allegedly can't run a trunk road through a ford.

Ah, this is one of my pet hates. First of all you get the awful junction just south of Balsall Common at the old Gambles garage, where the A4177 cuts off to Warwick. From then on there are no signs at all of any sort of road number. According to maps it is now the non-primary A452 but Warwickshire/Solihull CC wouldn't want anyone to know that! Then when it gets to Kenilworth the A452 should turn off to the left up Beehive Hill, but at the top end of there the road becomes Fieldgate Lane which is only a 1-way street (the bodged diversion, again not numbered is the semi-rural Upper Spring Lane which ends up at a T-junction with the A429 - the signs back from there only say Balsall Common, there is no hint whatsoever that it's an A road!) The A452 alledgedly starts again at the cross roads of High St, New St (A429), Fieldgate Lane and Bridge St, where you go past Abbey Fields, then when the road swings round to the right to Abbey Hill you take the 2nd left (ie. straight on!) onto Priory Road, then it eventually meets up with the Warwick Road where you turn left and go on towards Leamington Spa.

One day I'll photograph the whole messy route to show how bad it is.

Is it the council who are responsible for this seeing as it's not a primary route any more?

I seem to remember when I was a kid that it was quite well signed, I'm guessing since it got detrunked (or whatever they call it nowadays) it's been abandoned...

[M4Simon]

Here's the A1000 and B1000 in Welwynis a good example

Why is this a good example of a bad renumbering?

The B1000 is the original road which ran from Hertford to the former A1 (now B197) at Welwyn.

Then the Barnet Bypass was built, and the A1000 came into being from Finchley through to Hatfield, joining the A1 at Oldings Corner.

Then Welwyn Garden City was built. Sometime later, the A1000 was diverted through WGC, taking over the westernmost section of the B1000 - about 500 yards of dual carriageway. I don't know whether this diversion of the A1000 predates the collapse of the Wrestlers bridge over the railway in Hatfield (1960s) or whether it happened at a different stage.

Finally, in the last 15 years or so, the section of the B1000 through Digswell was diverted to join the A1000 at Mundells in WGC. If I recall correctly, the leg of the B1000 from Tewin to the original B1000 was signed as part of the B1000 long before the section through Digswell was formally downgraded.

All of these were sensible decisions which were appropriate at the time, and it was coincidental that the A1000 and B1000 ended up meeting each other rather than by design.

Simon

[Viator]

Have you even thought to look at what it is signed as on the ground, or contact the authority concerned? At the moment it sounds like you are demanding we change things based on a mapping error. I'm more inclined to trust what is shown on OSM really http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.56 ... 87&zoom=16 as it is much more likely to reflect the actual numbering on the ground.

Just look at the numbering in the area, and honestly say you don't think this is a mapping error?

Blimee, Jeni! Pardon me for breathing!

Yes, I had thought of looking at what is signed on the ground. It's just that, living some 145 crow-flight kilometres from the site of the (possible) atrocity, I had (stupidly, I now recognize) wondered if any other Sabristi living closer to Swindon had happened to notice since this question was first raised what the signs showed. And yes (2): I am indeed in the habit of writing to relevant authorities (got an upside-down sign removed and replaced only a few weeks ago, in fact) - but, once again, I was wondering if Sabristi might already have the answer. Isn't that one of the things a forum is for?

>> it sounds like you are demanding we change things based on a mapping error << Demand, demand? I'm extra depressed now: not only was my message so ineptly worded that you thought I was demanding SABRE do anything at all (it was meant to be a request for info), but it even led you -- it would seem -- to imagine that I believe the numbering used by the sources I quoted NOT to be based on a mapping error -- when I believe precisely the opposite...!

It's been some time since I was last on SABRE (various life-changing events having intervened: they happen to all of us), but I'm a little disappointed to discover that in the interim SABRE happiness may have been replaced by snappiness.

[t1(M)]

Here's the A1000 and B1000 in Welwynis a good example

Why is this a good example of a bad renumbering?

No it's not bad numbering - it was an answer to this question:

By the way, are there any other examples of same-number A and B roads meeting?

[Steven]

It's been some time since I was last on SABRE (various life-changing events having intervened: they happen to all of us), but I'm a little disappointed to discover that in the interim SABRE happiness may have been replaced by snappiness.

Oh, don't mind Jeni - she's our resident grumpy-sounding type... Don't worry, her bark's worse than her bite!

[M4Simon]

Here's the A1000 and B1000 in Welwynis a good example

Why is this a good example of a bad renumbering?

No it's not bad numbering - it was an answer to this question:

By the way, are there any other examples of same-number A and B roads meeting?

Ooops, missed that Still, I got to write a potted history of the road numbers at the end of my road;-)

Cheers,

Simon

[FosseWay]

Any A-road that needlessly turns into a B-road.

One that mystifies me is the A1152 in Suffolk -- it ends at a roundabout in the middle of nowhere near Rendlesham. Link.

These days, there's the teeniest bit of justification for it, as there's a new mini-town developing on the site of the airfield that, it could be argued, deserves an A road. But that's not been the case historically, and that anomalous road has been there for decades (I did check on old 1" maps but can't remember precisely when it appeared). I can only think it has to do with the air bases that used to be round there.

[vlad]

I have a rather elderly street atlas (dating back to the 1960s IIRC) which marks the road to Rendlesham as the B1069 (at least as far as the B1084). It's far more logical this way!