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fras wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 19:47I also noted not very many vehicles in Lane 1, most people sticking to Lanes 2-4, even HGVs. It seems to me there is now a psychological barrier to using Lane 1, as that is where most of the stopped vehicles will be.
From my experience that's happening elsewhere.
If it's not too busy I stay in lane 1 on the M6 section south of Stafford as that gives me my own private motorway lane. It's only the lorries you have to look out for as most of the cars don't go further left than lane 3....
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
fras wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 19:47I also noted not very many vehicles in Lane 1, most people sticking to Lanes 2-4, even HGVs. It seems to me there is now a psychological barrier to using Lane 1, as that is where most of the stopped vehicles will be.
From my experience that's happening elsewhere.
If it's not too busy I stay in lane 1 on the M6 section south of Stafford as that gives me my own private motorway lane. It's only the lorries you have to look out for as most of the cars don't go further left than lane 3....
M25 is the same on the traditional 4 lane and ALR 4 lane sections. So many just don't use lane 1 and the number that stick to 50 / 60 mph when free flow in lane 3 is frustrating
The lack of traffic in lane 1 may be down to the fear of sudden lane drops at junctions. The use of dia 1004.1 between lanes 1 and 2 at junctions doesn't help either but I don't recall seeing that on the newly finished sections.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir? Big and complex.
HE have set the matrix signs slot this week to display 'Keep left unless overtaking' as there have been a fair few complaints made about lane hogging in three and four.
I commented on the lane discipline when I used the M6 around Christmas. It is appalling. But before busting a gut over it, it's worth remembering that the complaint with the M6 and M25 was always that they were usually stationary. Moving but in a disorganised fashion is an improvement. When it gets congested, it will fill all four lanes again.
Truvelo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 19:17
The lack of traffic in lane 1 may be down to the fear of sudden lane drops at junctions. The use of dia 1004.1 between lanes 1 and 2 at junctions doesn't help either but I don't recall seeing that on the newly finished sections.
That's the main problem - the lack of consistency.
Heading south from Stafford you don't need to worry as you remain on the M6 at J11A and the hard shoulder comes back without you noticing. However, further south if you stay in the left-hand lane you're forced off at J9, which is annoying if you want the M5 and move over too early.
I assume on this new bit there's a lane drop at J16 southbound and J19 northbound, which isn't something I'm complaining about.
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
vlad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 20:18Heading south from Stafford you don't need to worry as you remain on the M6 at J11A and the hard shoulder comes back without you noticing. However, further south if you stay in the left-hand lane you're forced off at J9, which is annoying if you want the M5 and move over too early.
Fundamentally, though, it just requires people to look at the signs and change lane if they're in the wrong place. I really, really don't understand why people think they should select a lane ten miles in advance and stick to it, or why moving left until the exit approaches and then moving back out is somehow dangerous, difficult or too much trouble.
Bendo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:43
Hopefully the 5 vehicle accident between 18-19 southbound that has resulted in a ~8 hour closure isn't due to an undetected stationary vehicle.
Last Friday's M1 crash by Woodall services apparently was. I had stopped in the services to eat lunch; popped in to use the facilities, came out to find the carpark gridlocked and the motorway stationary. Back inside for a cup of tea and use the HE website to watch the cameras until things started moving again. An hour lost is not really relevant when someone has died.
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Bendo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:43
Hopefully the 5 vehicle accident between 18-19 southbound that has resulted in a ~8 hour closure isn't due to an undetected stationary vehicle.
Last Friday's M1 crash by Woodall services apparently was. I had stopped in the services to eat lunch; popped in to use the facilities, came out to find the carpark gridlocked and the motorway stationary. Back inside for a cup of tea and use the HE website to watch the cameras until things started moving again. An hour lost is not really relevant when someone has died.
Would that unfortunate motorist have died if there was a hard shoulder to go into ? I don't think so, it would have just been a routine breakdown on the hard shoulder.
Bendo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:43
Hopefully the 5 vehicle accident between 18-19 southbound that has resulted in a ~8 hour closure isn't due to an undetected stationary vehicle.
Last Friday's M1 crash by Woodall services apparently was. I had stopped in the services to eat lunch; popped in to use the facilities, came out to find the carpark gridlocked and the motorway stationary. Back inside for a cup of tea and use the HE website to watch the cameras until things started moving again. An hour lost is not really relevant when someone has died.
Would that unfortunate motorist have died if there was a hard shoulder to go into ? I don't think so, it would have just been a routine breakdown on the hard shoulder.
Sadly, I stand by my previous comment regarding "needing someone famous to die on the former hard shoulder" before attention is paid.
Did the original 2006 M42 experiment have problems with fatalities on the hard shoulder?
We shall be seeing this stretch of motorway in all its glory as we head north later today. If the traffic flow improves from the traditional "local Cheshire car park" and not TOO many people die on a year, then I am prepared to give this the benefit of the doubt as my new local motorway.
But I am not holding my breath.
Mike
Mike Hindson-Evans. Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
For me the issue is that as this is the most heavily trafficked section of the whole M6, any breakdowns/punctures have the potential for serious and fatal accidents in the interval between the event and the controllers reacting to it. At least with the hard shoulder one can come to a stand and get out of the car much more safely than if one is in Lane 1. Of course if the vehicle comes to a stand in Lanes 2-4, then there is at least some means of controlling these lanes to stop traffic using them, so I suppose this increases safety. However most breakdowns are with the vehicle on the hard shoulder.
The correct way to widen, (in my view), is to put in a hard shoulder that is not continuous, but which covers far more of the widened mileage. For instance over and underbridges would not have a hard shoulder. In essence the emergency refuges would become much, much longer.
fras wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16
For me the issue is that as this is the most heavily trafficked section of the whole M6, any breakdowns/punctures have the potential for serious and fatal accidents in the interval between the event and the controllers reacting to it.
What happens in the event of a power/ equipment failure that kills the cameras or prevents any signage being activated? I assume there are diverse / backup supplies and control paths. Would the equivalent of a "safety car" be sent out to slow/stop traffic?
jusme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 15:55
What happens in the event of a power/ equipment failure that kills the cameras or prevents any signage being activated? I assume there are diverse / backup supplies and control paths. Would the equivalent of a "safety car" be sent out to slow/stop traffic?
In theory a backup power supply should be made available but then M27 J3 has had three outages due to the emergency generator running out of fuel so I wouldn't bank on smart motorways getting that much attention.
jusme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 15:55
What happens in the event of a power/ equipment failure that kills the cameras or prevents any signage being activated? I assume there are diverse / backup supplies and control paths. Would the equivalent of a "safety car" be sent out to slow/stop traffic?
In theory a backup power supply should be made available but then M27 J3 has had three outages due to the emergency generator running out of fuel so I wouldn't bank on smart motorways getting that much attention
Wow, so much for safety. Why bother even protecting the power supply for signalised junctions?? It’s just more expense, y’know.
I am dumbfounded to read that, seriously. Even if not shocked, I thought “safety” was paramount in everyone’s (manager’s) mind these days. To have a situation where a power supply isn’t protected, but the network relies on electronic systems to operate safely...
Why bother even having traffic police, or HETO’s really?? You only have to pay for them.
Highways England have just released this time lapse video of the Barton Bank footbridge being demolished a couple of weeks ago. Have to give them their due full closure at 8pm, bridge brought down at midnight and fully reopened by 7.30am.
It's amazing how much aggregate they place on over the motorway lanes to protect the road service before dropping the bridge.
vlad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 20:18Heading south from Stafford you don't need to worry as you remain on the M6 at J11A and the hard shoulder comes back without you noticing. However, further south if you stay in the left-hand lane you're forced off at J9, which is annoying if you want the M5 and move over too early.
Fundamentally, though, it just requires people to look at the signs and change lane if they're in the wrong place. I really, really don't understand why people think they should select a lane ten miles in advance and stick to it, or why moving left until the exit approaches and then moving back out is somehow dangerous, difficult or too much trouble.
Well, just try doing it when Lane 2 is a wall of steel !
I think I'm right in saying there are three different iterations of all-lane running between Jn 19 and Jn9
We drove north on Saturday. M6j13 was a disaster area, but the construction faded away after j16 and the drive was pleasant.
Few people using the new "lane one Ex-HS" and some ERA spaces not yet painted orange.
A broken-down vehicle, just beyond the exit from Knutsford services (and therefore stuffing up the smooth traffic flow to M6j19) was being protected by two HETO units and the matrix signals were active, set for some three miles beforehand. Signage began with 60, dropping to 40 and "Lane closure" advance warning.
Interestingly, everyone slowed down, but the new lane one was already empty.
We are now residents of Cheshire.
Mike Hindson-Evans. Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
