A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Hrossey
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
I was assuming it just means “people I disagree with”.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Its a pejorative term for environmentalists coined by James Delingpole who used it as part the title of one of his books namely :
"Watermelons: How Environmentalists are Killing the Planet, Destroying the Economy and Stealing Your Children's Future"

He is an arch denialist when it come to climate change.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
Green on the outside, red on the inside. Implies, I think, a somewhat authoritarian approach to environmentalism. They are to be distinguished from "mangoes", who are green on the outside but orange on the inside, and are more liberal in style.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by ravenbluemoon »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 17:01
Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
Green on the outside, red on the inside. Implies, I think, a somewhat authoritarian approach to environmentalism. They are to be distinguished from "mangoes", who are green on the outside but orange on the inside, and are more liberal in style.
The red is more of a socialist/social democratic thing. I wouldn't necessarily put watermelons on either side of the authoritarian/liberterian axis. They're a fair mixed bag, from those I know. Some would even be for certain road improvements... within reason - improvements can benefit public transport, NMUs and the environment within towns that may be bypassed - not unlike the A96 project. Yes, that means concessions need to be made on things, but if you can get on yer bike for a short journey instead of getting in the car or using an unreliable bus service, what's so bad about that?
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
It's how I describe the Greens in places that have swear-filters.

Chris Bertram, and ravenbluemoon have both explained its meaning perfectly.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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A72 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 23:30
Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
It's how I describe the Greens in places that have swear-filters.

Chris Bertram, and ravenbluemoon have both explained its meaning perfectly.
“Greens” would do it with less typing, no swearing and no need for lengthy explanations :roll:
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Chris5156 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 09:12
A72 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 23:30
Hrossey wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:46 What does ‘watermelons’ mean please? I know what one is but I’m not familiar with itnin a roads context.
It's how I describe the Greens in places that have swear-filters.

Chris Bertram, and ravenbluemoon have both explained its meaning perfectly.
“Greens” would do it with less typing, no swearing and no need for lengthy explanations :roll:
When I said a few posts ago
Big L wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 15:48 I was assuming it just means “people I disagree with”.
it turns out they meant "green supporters I disagree with".
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Well if there was ever to be a green argument for the A96 upgrade, it would be for the space freed up in the towns bypassed to be used to provide a decent cycle network to connect existing and new development and sell that concept as part of a comprehensive package. If done off line the old A96 could also become a public transport cycle corridor.

Now if the greens oppose that as a concept then it would smell of ideologically driven thought than a balanced approach.

The last thing it needs to be is a joining up of piecemeal housing led infrastructure delivery projects that local authorities should be shot for (especially when they dress them up as bypasses politically). Thankfully it’s a national project.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Re. ‘Watermelons’

Thanks I get it now.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by ravenbluemoon »

M19 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:13 Well if there was ever to be a green argument for the A96 upgrade, it would be for the space freed up in the towns bypassed to be used to provide a decent cycle network to connect existing and new development and sell that concept as part of a comprehensive package. If done off line the old A96 could also become a public transport cycle corridor.

Now if the greens oppose that as a concept then it would smell of ideologically driven thought than a balanced approach.
Agreed. Most sensible greens would understand this - separate out the through traffic in town and make it attractive to walk/cycle/get the bus on local journeys. That way the long distance traffic keeps moving (and therefore doesn't create unnecessary pollution), and you can cycle into town on a road where you're not going to get squished by a truck.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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The questions that consultation are not very good.
Last edited by Starling on Tue Jun 07, 2022 15:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Starling wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 21:53 The questions that consultation are a load of nonsense.

Only vegan hipsters who cycle around Glasgow and Edinburgh on single speed bicycles would ask about active travel on the 110 mile journey on the A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen.

Many of these eco minded politicians who live in around Glasgow and Edinburgh are so out of touch with the realities of the rest of Scotland.

The current Scottish government like to talk the talk about reversing the Highland clearances, but they can't even walk the walk even give the people in outlying areas proper roads.
Do bikes and pedestrians explode if introduced to a numbered road over 100 miles long? In any case 110 miles is a reasonable 2-3 day's bike touring, though perhaps not on a single speed. The reality is that many people live in Scotland because they enjoy outdoor pursuits and want to walk or cycle for leisure and to get about. Far more travel here from around the world for similar purposes. Businesses are generally pretty happy to take their money whatever their mode of transport, dietary preferences or place of origin.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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Starling wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 21:53 The questions that consultation are a load of nonsense.

Only vegan hipsters who cycle around Glasgow and Edinburgh on single speed bicycles would ask about active travel on the 110 mile journey on the A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen.

Many of these eco minded politicians who live in around Glasgow and Edinburgh are so out of touch with the realities of the rest of Scotland.

The current Scottish government like to talk the talk about reversing the Highland clearances, but they can't even walk the walk even give the people in outlying areas proper roads.

In my teens I regularly cycled to Whitby from Middlesbrough for the day and rode back which was 30 miles each way over the North Yorkshire Moors. In any case you are assuming that most people would be making the full round trip every day, the probability is that a significant number of people would be cycling between places along the corridor such as Inverness and Nairn or Aberdeen and Dyce.

As for giving people proper roads you need to study what they need by carrying out a survey - which is of course what we are discussing.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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jnty wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 00:25
Starling wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 21:53 The questions that consultation are a load of nonsense.

Only vegan hipsters who cycle around Glasgow and Edinburgh on single speed bicycles would ask about active travel on the 110 mile journey on the A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen.

Many of these eco minded politicians who live in around Glasgow and Edinburgh are so out of touch with the realities of the rest of Scotland.

The current Scottish government like to talk the talk about reversing the Highland clearances, but they can't even walk the walk even give the people in outlying areas proper roads.
Do bikes and pedestrians explode if introduced to a numbered road over 100 miles long? In any case 110 miles is a reasonable 2-3 day's bike touring, though perhaps not on a single speed. The reality is that many people live in Scotland because they enjoy outdoor pursuits and want to walk or cycle for leisure and to get about. Far more travel here from around the world for similar purposes. Businesses are generally pretty happy to take their money whatever their mode of transport, dietary preferences or place of origin.
https://cycle.travel/route/summary/156588 - There's already a route between the two. I'm not sure why anyone cycling for fun would actively want to travel along the route of the A96 which misses anything of notice
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by haggishunter »

Some utter bunkum written in some of the posts above. Providing an active travel route along a major trunk road corridor isn't about the few who would do the distance of a major arterial trunk road as some part of a larger cycling tour - it's enabling people in communities and rural properties all along the route to connect with places, people, services be it within a few hundred meters walking or a good few miles cycling.

So providing a 110mile active travel route doesn't imply an expectation of people using the route for a 110miles, but it obviously needs to be continuous if it is to serve potential users along the full length. Does the overwhelming majority of motorised traffic that joins and leaves the A96 go anywhere near the full length of the route, of course not! :roll:

I wonder how many of those commenting above are familiar with the current A96, often old / narrow twisting carriageway with no pedestrian or segregated cycle provision - that mean even a few yards rural journeys can need a vehicle to not be deadly. Clearing strategic long distance traffic and particularly high numbers of large goods vehicles from the likes of Nairn, Elgin and Keith would in itself make significant improvements to opportunities for active travel within said urban areas.
Starling wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 21:53 The questions that consultation are a load of nonsense.

Only vegan hipsters who cycle around Glasgow and Edinburgh on single speed bicycles would ask about active travel on the 110 mile journey on the A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen.

Many of these eco minded politicians who live in around Glasgow and Edinburgh are so out of touch with the realities of the rest of Scotland.

The current Scottish government like to talk the talk about reversing the Highland clearances, but they can't even walk the walk even give the people in outlying areas proper roads.
This quote shows the ignorance and prejudice of the poster far more than their supposed ignorance of the consultation. Ironically they come over as the type that are probably ranting about Glasgow eco politicians who don't understand the rest of Scotland, while basing their entire life outlook around the loyalist cult of a certain Glasgow football club! :roll:
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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haggishunter wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:55 I wonder how many of those commenting above are familiar with the current A96, often old / narrow twisting carriageway with no pedestrian or segregated cycle provision - that mean even a few yards rural journeys can need a vehicle to not be deadly. Clearing strategic long distance traffic and particularly high numbers of large goods vehicles from the likes of Nairn, Elgin and Keith would in itself make significant improvements to opportunities for active travel within said urban areas.

This quote shows the ignorance and prejudice of the poster far more than their supposed ignorance of the consultation. Ironically they come over as the type that are probably ranting about Glasgow eco politicians who don't understand the rest of Scotland, while basing their entire life outlook around the loyalist cult of a certain Glasgow football club! :roll:
Well given that I worked for a major oil services company with offices in Aberdeen and a rig yard just outside Inverness (Ardersier) this is a road I have driven on many times. It would take 2.5 hours on a good day and was a right royal pain and it must have been hell in Elgin

Ardersier at its peak
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by jnty »

jabbaboy wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:17
jnty wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 00:25
Starling wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 21:53 The questions that consultation are a load of nonsense.

Only vegan hipsters who cycle around Glasgow and Edinburgh on single speed bicycles would ask about active travel on the 110 mile journey on the A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen.

Many of these eco minded politicians who live in around Glasgow and Edinburgh are so out of touch with the realities of the rest of Scotland.

The current Scottish government like to talk the talk about reversing the Highland clearances, but they can't even walk the walk even give the people in outlying areas proper roads.
Do bikes and pedestrians explode if introduced to a numbered road over 100 miles long? In any case 110 miles is a reasonable 2-3 day's bike touring, though perhaps not on a single speed. The reality is that many people live in Scotland because they enjoy outdoor pursuits and want to walk or cycle for leisure and to get about. Far more travel here from around the world for similar purposes. Businesses are generally pretty happy to take their money whatever their mode of transport, dietary preferences or place of origin.
https://cycle.travel/route/summary/156588 - There's already a route between the two. I'm not sure why anyone cycling for fun would actively want to travel along the route of the A96 which misses anything of notice
Well by that logic there's already a route for all traffic between Inverness and Aberdeen - the A96 - so they can just cancel the project, job done.

Might active travellers perhaps want to use part of the A96 for their journey? Or need to cross it? I suppose all bypasses are useless because they don't go anywhere?
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by jabbaboy »

jnty wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 01:00
jabbaboy wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:17
jnty wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 00:25

Do bikes and pedestrians explode if introduced to a numbered road over 100 miles long? In any case 110 miles is a reasonable 2-3 day's bike touring, though perhaps not on a single speed. The reality is that many people live in Scotland because they enjoy outdoor pursuits and want to walk or cycle for leisure and to get about. Far more travel here from around the world for similar purposes. Businesses are generally pretty happy to take their money whatever their mode of transport, dietary preferences or place of origin.
https://cycle.travel/route/summary/156588 - There's already a route between the two. I'm not sure why anyone cycling for fun would actively want to travel along the route of the A96 which misses anything of notice
Well by that logic there's already a route for all traffic between Inverness and Aberdeen - the A96 - so they can just cancel the project, job done.

Might active travellers perhaps want to use part of the A96 for their journey? Or need to cross it? I suppose all bypasses are useless because they don't go anywhere?
Being totally honest, bar the bypasses of the few towns which should should be all dual bar Keith that benefit many people, more pollution wise than anything else. I think it's mostly a waste of money. There's no need for dualling in particularly between Fochabars and Inverurie (it's roughly 7k vehicles a day) and even the rest of is debateable, a few extra crawler lanes would be enough with a dual carriageway every 11 mile or so. There's much worse roads in Scotland, even in the Highlands like the A82 which is an absolute death trap for cycles and even cars especially around the Loch Ness area or the NC500 which is single track or Stromeferry which is shut every couple of years with landslides. Just to pick a few.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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jabbaboy wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 08:54 Being totally honest, bar the bypasses of the few towns which should should be all dual bar Keith that benefit many people, more pollution wise than anything else. I think it's mostly a waste of money. There's no need for dualling in particularly between Fochabars and Inverurie (it's roughly 7k vehicles a day) and even the rest of is debateable, a few extra crawler lanes would be enough with a dual carriageway every 11 mile or so. There's much worse roads in Scotland, even in the Highlands like the A82 which is an absolute death trap for cycles and even cars especially around the Loch Ness area or the NC500 which is single track or Stromeferry which is shut every couple of years with landslides. Just to pick a few.
You are comparing apples and oranges here. The A96 is a strategic road between 2 of the most important cities in Scotland , yes there quiet stretches but there are others that are quite simply overloaded. At Inverurie for example the traffic levels are now up to 20k and the road surface is very poor. As for the NC500 there are plenty of us who have driven it and from my point of view turning it into a bland normal road would be missing the point entirely.

As for the A82 past Loch Ness if I was cycling in that area I think I would use the Caledonia Way.
https://explore.osmaps.com/route/551309 ... 87&type=2d

There is a proposal to reroute the A890 at Stromeferry but as I recall there is a dispute between the landowners and Highland Council.
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