A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

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clc
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by clc »

Glen wrote:
clc wrote:The manifesto commitment was " £1.4 billion in improvements to the road network – including work on dualling the A9 and A96...". 

Not sure if "work" in the context of the A96 means construction or simply design and statutory stuff. Time will tell.
But the public don't really care about the behind the scenes process, they just want to see a new road they can drive on, or at least see it getting built.
As far as the electorate are concerned, they were promised a dual carriageway and they won't see that promise delivered until construction is under way.

If the construction hasn't started by the 2021 election then the opposition parties will make political capital of that. Until last year the Lib Dems were pointing out that nothing on the A9 that hadn't been designed under the previous government had been built under the SNP.
If it started construction in the final year of the parliament I'd be happy with that. It's a £400m scheme to be funded from the capital budget but should be doable unless it's competing with the A9 for capital funding which I doubt it will be as I expect the A9 will be largely revenue funded.
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jackal
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by jackal »

clc wrote:It's a £400m scheme to be funded from the capital budget but should be doable unless it's competing with the A9 for capital funding which I doubt it will be as I expect the A9 will be largely revenue funded.
What revenue stream are you referring to?
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by clc »

jackal wrote:
clc wrote:It's a £400m scheme to be funded from the capital budget but should be doable unless it's competing with the A9 for capital funding which I doubt it will be as I expect the A9 will be largely revenue funded.
What revenue stream are you referring to?
What I meant was it will be funded from the revenue budget rather than the capital budget. The payments the government makes on PFI/NPD projects come out of it's revenue budget.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by FtoE »

Altnabreac wrote:
FtoE wrote:
rileyrob wrote:Whilst I agree with that wholeheartedly, there are many around here who will just find all this another reason to moan about all the money going to (insert distant place here) and nothing being spent locally. I've even heard people in Caol and Corpach complaining about money being spent in Fort William, which just makes me laugh.

Whilst I am sure that there are parts of the country which could genuinely have this gripe, I feel that much of Lochaber already has a pretty good deal. We've had new bridges and resurfacing in Glen Coe, across Rannoch Moor and on the A830, investment in schools across the area, new police stations in Glencoe and Fort William, a new FW Fire Station and Surgery, New Council offices being built, and a New Hospital now in the pipeline. The High Street is tidied up so often you get the impression they enjoy polishing a ****.

Thing is that a lot of people are so blinkered that if these new facilities etc don't directly benefit them, then they either don't recognise it or consider it a waste of money.
The money being spent on new bridges in Glencoe was because the old ones weren't fit for new heavier lorries, no?
Resurfacing is just maintainance. The road is still so narrow over Rannoch that overtaking a coach or lorry at speed needs nerves of steel - and the vehicle you're overtaking to keep hard left.
And while this is going rather OT new schools have been built all over the Highlands. What might be interesting to note is the number of primary schools in the Fort William area is reducing the number in Inverness is increasing. New hospital - well, we'll see. But I wonder how much they'll get for selling the town-centre Belford, they've already made a killing on the site on the Blar.

Very OT, sorry, but not quite as clear-cut as it seems.
I think you rather prove the point about moaning locals from Fort William.

Areas with an increasing population need more schools. That's how developer contributions work.
No, I'm pointing out that investment in schools is not peculiar to Ft Wm. I'm not sure why people there should be any more grateful than anywhere else.

Trying to steer back on to roads, 'investment' on the A82 has been, so far, limited to maintenance.
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jackal
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by jackal »

clc wrote:
jackal wrote:
clc wrote:It's a £400m scheme to be funded from the capital budget but should be doable unless it's competing with the A9 for capital funding which I doubt it will be as I expect the A9 will be largely revenue funded.
What revenue stream are you referring to?
What I meant was it will be funded from the revenue budget rather than the capital budget. The payments the government makes on PFI/NPD projects come out of it's revenue budget.
I thought you probably meant something like that. But surely the government just adjusts the proportions of revenue vs. capital spending in order to match its own priorities. As I'm assuming the A9 PFI contract you're referring to hasn't been signed yet, the government could just decide to delay that and spend the saved money on the A96 instead.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by clc »

jackal wrote:
clc wrote:
jackal wrote: What revenue stream are you referring to?
What I meant was it will be funded from the revenue budget rather than the capital budget. The payments the government makes on PFI/NPD projects come out of it's revenue budget.
I thought you probably meant something like that. But surely the government just adjusts the proportions of revenue vs. capital spending in order to match its own priorities. As I'm assuming the A9 PFI contract you're referring to hasn't been signed yet, the government could just decide to delay that and spend the saved money on the A96 instead.
Delaying the A96 is more likely as completing the A9 by 2025 is high priority for the Scottish Govt. Perhaps neither need to be delayed though. If both the A9 and Nairn-Inverness were capital funded and being built simultaneously you'd be spending £700m per year on just those two schemes. The capital budget for new road schemes next year is £400m including the FRC. So you have the problem of where to take £300m from. You could transfer it from the revenue budget but that pays for day to day running costs in the NHS, schools etc. Or you could cut capital spending in other areas such as rail improvements. 

Alternatively you could spread the cost of  the A9 over 30 years and make the short term impact on public spending more manageable. As governments tend to think short term I expect this will be the preferred option.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Glen »

For anyone who hasn't gone through the whole plans, here are the key points on the route.

Seafield (Retail Park) Roundabout, where the scheme starts to Smithton Junction.
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Balloch Junction at the east end of Barn Church Road
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Where the route crosses the existing A96 between Morayhill and Kerrowaird
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Mid Coul Junction at the airport access road
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Brackley Junction at the B9006
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Gollanfield Crossroads (no junction on the new road), the existing road will be stopped up between here and Nairn West
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Nairn West Junction, from where the existing A96 provides access to Nairn and the new road heads south to bypass the town
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Crossed by the A939 to the south of Nairn (no junction)
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Nairn East Junction, between Nairn and Auldearn, the B9111 into Auldearn uses the existing T junction and goes under the new junction, the current Auldearn bypass goes off the roundabout to access not very much.
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To the east of Auldearn where the new road crosses the existing A96
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Hardmuir, where the dual carriageway ends and the existing road is connected by a junction on the single carriageway. This is seen as a temporary terminus, so the connection to the old road isn't a permanent feature.
Image
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rileyrob
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by rileyrob »

Looking more closely at the Nairn / Auldearn section of the plans, there are a number of things that confuse me.

1. No junction with the A939. I appreciate that the A939 doesn't exactly carry a lot of traffic, and assume that it will be diverted to Nairn East, but to my mind that adds to the problems with that junction.
2. The odd situation with the B9111 as noted by others above. For the old Auldearn road to not connect directly with the eastern roundabout suggests land ownership issues, or perhaps that traffic surveys show that the majority of traffic is Nairn bound, rather than Inverness bound, so this layout bypasses two roundabouts. Keeping the existing give way junction seems a bit daft though.
3. What purpose will the current Auldearn bypass serve in the future? To my mind, it would make most sense to stop up that whole stretch of road, return to the landowner and reconnect the two ends of Boath Road. The tiny additional traffic flow in Auldearn is hardly relevant, I wouldn't have thought. Indeed, stopping up this road could allow the whole Nairn East junction to move onto the B9111 route.

I'm sure that the planners have been through everything thoroughly, and they genuinely believe that this is the best solution, and with the low traffic volumes in question, the above are almost insignificant points, but it is still intriguing!
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Altnabreac
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Altnabreac »

The A939 question is easily enough answered.

I'm fairly sure virtually all the demand on the A939 is for Nairn with almost no traffic heading east or west from there.

From Grantown if you want Forres you will take the A940, if you want Inverness the A9.

So a junction there is only really going to serve Grantown - Inverness Airport traffic - a very small market I suspect.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Glen »

Visualisation videos for this scheme have been published today.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSuWVKQ46c&t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKaSlWez8z8
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orudge
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by orudge »

Watching the first video, one thing that struck me is that there will be a surprisingly large number of yellow cars in 15 years time! ;)

Looks good though - the visualisation quality has come on leaps and bounds since the AWPR visualisation!
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Glen »

I went and got my glossy copy of the NTS and asked a few questions regarding the layout.

At the Smithton junction, the westbound onslip will be a lane gain, so there will be three lanes between the merge and the roundabout at the retail park. The close proximity of these junctions (around 600m from the merge) is a departure from standards, so there will be a 50 mph speed limit through the Smithton junction.

At Auldearn, the area between the B9111 and the current A96 is a flood plain, so they ruled out connecting the B9111 to the roundabout and left it on the current line.
As for the existing Auldearn bypass, while there will be very little traffic using it, it's easier to leave it in place to maintain existing accesses than to have to provided alternatives for these.

There will be a few under or over bridges for unclassified roads which will be single track, with passing places either side, to maintain the existing standard of road. Such as Dalcross station road and the road north of Boath (the former will become a dead end when the level crossing is closed as part of the new airport station, anyway).

I asked why all the laybys provided were on the Nairn/Auldearn bypass part of the scheme, this is because there needs to be at least 1 km between junctions (including laybys) and there is a maximum radius curve they can be on. There isn't anywhere between junctions and bends on the western end of the scheme were laybys could be fitted in.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Altnabreac »

Glen wrote:I went and got my glossy copy of the NTS and asked a few questions regarding the layout.

At the Smithton junction, the westbound onslip will be a lane gain, so there will be three lanes between the merge and the roundabout at the retail park. The close proximity of these junctions (around 600m from the merge) is a departure from standards, so there will be a 50 mph speed limit through the Smithton junction.

At Auldearn, the area between the B9111 and the current A96 is a flood plain, so they ruled out connecting the B9111 to the roundabout and left it on the current line.
As for the existing Auldearn bypass, while there will be very little traffic using it, it's easier to leave it in place to maintain existing accesses than to have to provided alternatives for these.

There will be a few under or over bridges for unclassified roads which will be single track, with passing places either side, to maintain the existing standard of road. Such as Dalcross station road and the road north of Boath (the former will become a dead end when the level crossing is closed as part of the new airport station, anyway).

I asked why all the laybys provided were on the Nairn/Auldearn bypass part of the scheme, this is because there needs to be at least 1 km between junctions (including laybys) and there is a maximum radius curve they can be on. There isn't anywhere between junctions and bends on the western end of the scheme were laybys could be fitted in.
Thanks Glen. Certainly answers some of the questions we all had about the designs.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by 85CF380 »

I still think that a high quality S2+1 with GSJ would be just as effective but easier on the budget. I notice some A96 traffic flows are 18000 but also 11000 & Keith to Inverurie is around 7000. Both the DMRB & the Germans say a 2+1 can accommodate upto 25,000. Europe builds S2 with GSJ's it's about time the DMRB allowed this in the UK.
There's a great 2+1 report on the internet by the US 'National Cooperative Highway Research Programme -Application of European 2+1 Roadway Design' , from 2003 but still relevant." frameborder="0">
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Altnabreac »

85CF380 wrote:I still think that a high quality S2+1 with GSJ would be just as effective but easier on the budget. I notice some A96 traffic flows are 18000 but also 11000 & Keith to Inverurie is around 7000. Both the DMRB & the Germans say a 2+1 can accommodate upto 25,000. Europe builds S2 with GSJ's it's about time the DMRB allowed this in the UK.
There's a great 2+1 report on the internet by the US 'National Cooperative Highway Research Programme -Application of European 2+1 Roadway Design' , from 2003 but still relevant." frameborder="0">
In general I would certainly rather see S2+1 with GSJs built than dualling with central reservation gaps.

However I am sympathetic to the argument that in the case of the A9 and A96 it is about identifying a strategic framework of roads which need to be provided to high standard even though the traffic itself may not require it.

There should however be a firm commitment for A9 Dunblane - Perth and A90 Dundee - Aberdeen to be upgraded to the same high standard with gap closures and GSJs.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by orudge »

Altnabreac wrote:There should however be a firm commitment for A9 Dunblane - Perth and A90 Dundee - Aberdeen to be upgraded to the same high standard with gap closures and GSJs.
I expect the former to be more likely than the latter in the medium term - mainly because Perth to Dunblane is over the half the length of Dundee to Aberdeen (26 versus 58 miles, or 49 miles to the future Fastlink junction). Just getting a single GSJ at Laurencekirk into the programme has taken quite some time, and it'll still be a few years before we see it built.

There are a very large number of farm accesses along both roads, and along the A90 there are what must be hundreds of accesses for minor roads and properties. If you wanted a proper high standard "expressway", then realistically you'd be looking at building a new route parallel to the existing road, and turning half of the existing road into a local access road.

Ideally the M9 would be extended from Dunblane to Perth, but at £25 million per mile or more, you'd still be talking at least £650m, and that's before you start redesigning Broxden to allow freeflow movements.

~96 miles of D2M from Dunblane to Perth, then Perth to Dundee (plus a Dundee bypass), then Dundee to Stonehaven would be my dream, but I'm not sure the government will be so willing to throw £3bn+ at this project!

Back in reality, it would be good to at least get all the junctions with classified roads on both the A9 and A90 using GSJs, even if it meant stopping up some junctions and funnelling a bit of extra traffic along local roads. Close the central reservation gaps too, of course. The many minor road accesses and field entrances would just have to be limited to LILO access. Even this though I imagine would be an expensive project.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by 85CF380 »

Nice to see that Brackley is getting a GSJ, that'll be a relief to the 34,000 vehicles a day, Oh :confused:
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by clc »

I can't help thinking that option 5 of the SBC would be the more sensible choice. It delivers the greatest value for money of all options according to the SBC with a BCR of 1.25-1.50 (compared with 1-1.25 for full dualling). Approximately 50% of the route would be dualled.

Option 5:

- Dualling of heavily trafficked sections including Inverness-Nairn/Nairn Bypass.

- Dual carriageway bypasses of Forres, Elgin and Inverurie.

- Single carriageway bypass of Keith.

- Targeted improvements for the
remaining sections ie. WS2+1; climbing lanes; hard strip provision; local realignments and junction improvements.

The capital cost would be £500m-1bn compared with £1.5bn-2bn for full dualling. You'd save a billion (to spend on other road schemes) and the A96 would be fit for purpose.

SBC:

http://www.transport.gov.scot/system/fi ... tember.pdf
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by Chris5156 »

orudge wrote:There are a very large number of farm accesses along both roads, and along the A90 there are what must be hundreds of accesses for minor roads and properties. If you wanted a proper high standard "expressway", then realistically you'd be looking at building a new route parallel to the existing road, and turning half of the existing road into a local access road.
That does make sense, and I imagine aligns with Transport Scotland's thinking. But it will be strange indeed when the A96 is done, and Aberdeen's connections to the outside world are a world-class limited access expressway to Inverness and the Highlands vs. an ordinary dual carriageway with alignment problems and substandard junctions to the whole of the rest of Scotland and the UK.
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Re: A96 Dualling: Inverness to Nairn

Post by jackal »

Chris5156 wrote:
orudge wrote:There are a very large number of farm accesses along both roads, and along the A90 there are what must be hundreds of accesses for minor roads and properties. If you wanted a proper high standard "expressway", then realistically you'd be looking at building a new route parallel to the existing road, and turning half of the existing road into a local access road.
That does make sense, and I imagine aligns with Transport Scotland's thinking. But it will be strange indeed when the A96 is done, and Aberdeen's connections to the outside world are a world-class limited access expressway to Inverness and the Highlands vs. an ordinary dual carriageway with alignment problems and substandard junctions to the whole of the rest of Scotland and the UK.
TS are just "delivering the Scottish Government's vision for transport", i.e. all roads lead to Inverness.
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