A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
KeithW
Member
Posts: 10304
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by KeithW » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:01

thatapanydude wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 20:08
"....We are now informed that the work on A1(M) has been deferred for four or five years...."

Quite big news I guess concerning the A1(M) here. I mean its the right decision if they are going to scale back smart motorways and hopefully reassess the case of full-widening (where reasonable - I don't mean replacing every bridge).

Article is here.
More likely due to the expressed wish of the government to prioritise spending in the North and Midlands.

User avatar
M4Simon
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 9444
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2002 22:35
Location: WGC, Herts
Contact:

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by M4Simon » Sat Aug 08, 2020 13:31

Chris5156 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 09:05
thatapanydude wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 20:08
"....We are now informed that the work on A1(M) has been deferred for four or five years...."

Quite big news I guess concerning the A1(M) here. I mean its the right decision if they are going to scale back smart motorways and hopefully reassess the case of full-widening (where reasonable - I don't mean replacing every bridge).

Article is here.
I can't make head nor tail of that - the gist of the article seems to be that Councillor Busybody is unhappy about some social distancing barriers on their local high street and when the paper interviewed them chucked in an unsubstantiated reference to work on the A1(M), which seems to have nothing to do with anything. What are they on about?

Highways England seem to be under the impression that work has already started.
This is my local patch. I've read that article a couple of times, once before it was linked in this thread and once since. As far as I can tell, the A1(M) scheme is a throw-away line in an article about the ridiculous one-way system that was implemented to help with social distancing by HCC without reference to either their own councillors, the borough council or the parish council. The scheme is awful and has completely paralysed the village, yet does not provide either improved cycle access nor improved pedestrian access to the shops. It needs to go.

The other factor here is that the local MP is also the transport secretary. He will be trying to work out which bandwagon to jump on. He may have indicated a delay to the Smart Motorway without it being an official announcement.

Simon
Historic (1922) routes project

Please visit Rural Roads

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
EpicChef
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1848
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:47
Location: London, UK

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by EpicChef » Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:28

M4Simon wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 13:31
The other factor here is that the local MP is also the transport secretary. He will be trying to work out which bandwagon to jump on. He may have indicated a delay to the Smart Motorway without it being an official announcement.
If he’s the transport secretary why does he not treat his constituents with a full widening?!
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
thatapanydude
Member
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 21:35
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by thatapanydude » Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:41

To be honest I reckon you could get away with widening just 6 to 7 properly and come back to the bit in between Stevenage later alongside encouraging A602 and local traffic to go through the town.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1

thomas417
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 21:13

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by thomas417 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:59

How strange, I thought work had already begun on this scheme?

User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 5305
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Herts

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by trickstat » Sat Aug 08, 2020 17:28

thomas417 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:59
How strange, I thought work had already begun on this scheme?
The HE website said it was beginning in March 2020. Well we all know what happened halfway through that month.

User avatar
Chris5156
Member
Posts: 14404
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Chris5156 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 17:38

EpicChef wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:28
If he’s the transport secretary why does he not treat his constituents with a full widening?!
Because a Minister giving preferential treatment to their own constituency is rightly considered a gross abuse of power.

User avatar
Bryn666
Member
Posts: 30121
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 21:54

Chris5156 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 17:38
EpicChef wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 16:28
If he’s the transport secretary why does he not treat his constituents with a full widening?!
Because a Minister giving preferential treatment to their own constituency is rightly considered a gross abuse of power.
Much like the A556 being so strictly controlled as to what it did given that the MP the road went through was the then Chancellor of the Exchequer and Tatton isn't a constituency tainted by a corrupt Tory MP taking cash for questions or anything... :o
Bryn
Traffic/Road Safety Dogsbody and General Grumpy Now-a-Thirtysomething Man
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/

User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03

Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/

User avatar
Bryn666
Member
Posts: 30121
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:56

jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/
Wouldn't this be the first D2M (I will approach anyone who says Gatwick Spur with a wet trout) to be converted though to smart motorway, which logically should make heck all difference but I'm guessing it's put the panic on 'them'.
Bryn
Traffic/Road Safety Dogsbody and General Grumpy Now-a-Thirtysomething Man
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/

User avatar
thatapanydude
Member
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 21:35
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by thatapanydude » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:42

Bryn666 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:56
jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/
Wouldn't this be the first D2M (I will approach anyone who says Gatwick Spur with a wet trout) to be converted though to smart motorway, which logically should make heck all difference but I'm guessing it's put the panic on 'them'.
One thing to note being an issue with converting D2(M) to ALR is in a Lane 1 breakdown 33% of capacity is removed rather than 25% in D4 ALR.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1

User avatar
Bryn666
Member
Posts: 30121
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:05

thatapanydude wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:42
Bryn666 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:56
jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/
Wouldn't this be the first D2M (I will approach anyone who says Gatwick Spur with a wet trout) to be converted though to smart motorway, which logically should make heck all difference but I'm guessing it's put the panic on 'them'.
One thing to note being an issue with converting D2(M) to ALR is in a Lane 1 breakdown 33% of capacity is removed rather than 25% in D4 ALR.
Yeah but no-one ever stops in a live lane and they always make it safely to an ERA and live happily ever after if you believe HE on this subject :wink:
Bryn
Traffic/Road Safety Dogsbody and General Grumpy Now-a-Thirtysomething Man
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/

jusme
Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 17:51

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jusme » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:30

thatapanydude wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:42
One thing to note being an issue with converting D2(M) to ALR is in a Lane 1 breakdown 33% of capacity is removed rather than 25% in D4 ALR.
Or 50% for a D4 ALR if they close two lanes...

User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Mon Dec 07, 2020 14:48

Bryn666 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:56
Wouldn't this be the first D2M (I will approach anyone who says Gatwick Spur with a wet trout) to be converted though to smart motorway, which logically should make heck all difference but I'm guessing it's put the panic on 'them'.
Quite.

In fact the first 'not D3M' road to be ALRed should be M25 J10-16 (specifically J15-16) starting in 2022-23 Q2. So it will have taken nearly 20 years from the ATM trial on the M42 to realise the benefit of the extra lane on a road that isn't a D3M - strangely conservative given the much more obvious risks associated with the technology.

Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: B3272/A325/A331

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Micro The Maniac » Tue Dec 08, 2020 08:09

Bryn666 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:05
Yeah but no-one ever stops in a live lane and they always make it safely to an ERA and live happily ever after if you believe HE on this subject :wink:
And of course, no-one ever breaks down on a non-hardshouldered D3........

User avatar
A303Chris
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 3080
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 14:01
Location: Reading

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by A303Chris » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:32

jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/
Personally I think improving the A1 from Baldock to Brampton takes preference over this.

In fact since the A14 improvement improved a further 3 miles of the A1 to D3, the change from HQDC to 1950's DC is never more stark then at Buckden, when you come off a very high standard road to a dreadful at grade roundabout within a village
The M25 - The road to nowhere

User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 9549
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by c2R » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:38

A303Chris wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:32
jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -motorway/
Personally I think improving the A1 from Baldock to Brampton takes preference over this.

In fact since the A14 improvement improved a further 3 miles of the A1 to D3, the change from HQDC to 1950's DC is never more stark then at Buckden, when you come off a very high standard road to a dreadful at grade roundabout within a village
I agree - at the very least a scheme to bypass Buckden and improve the road down as far as the Black Cat should be progressed urgently - Settlements like Southoe and Wyboston are essentially only accessible via some pretty horrible at grade junctions.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is availabile in the Digest forum.

User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:01

To be fair the southbound A1 does lose a third of its traffic to the A14 at Brampton so it's somewhat logical that that's where the quality drops off.

I personally think J6-8 is a higher priority as it's far busier and a glaring D2 bottleneck between D3 sections. Baldock to Brampton is a vastly more expensive long term aspiration that shouldn't be an excuse to hold up more deliverable schemes.

User avatar
Chris5156
Member
Posts: 14404
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Chris5156 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:26

jackal wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 09:03
Confirmation that the scheme is delayed until RIS3, accompanied with some waffle about the stocktake (nevermind that other ALR schemes are going ahead essentially as planned).
No great surprise really - the stocktake meant money had to be spent on existing Smart Motorways to add safety features, and that money was always going to come from funds that were allocated to existing Smart Motorway projects. At least a few were bound to be shoved over the dotted line into RIS3. I don't think this is the worst one to have lost.

User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 9549
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by c2R » Tue Dec 08, 2020 13:48

jackal wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:01
To be fair the southbound A1 does lose a third of its traffic to the A14 at Brampton so it's somewhat logical that that's where the quality drops off.

I personally think J6-8 is a higher priority as it's far busier and a glaring D2 bottleneck between D3 sections. Baldock to Brampton is a vastly more expensive long term aspiration that shouldn't be an excuse to hold up more deliverable schemes.
I disagree with that assessment - firstly J6-8 is only really busy when it fills up with commuter traffic centred around Welwyn, Hatfield, Letchworth, Baldock, and Stevenage - for the most the day, there is not a significant issue - this can be seen by the fact that the D2M section south of Hatfield copes fine. I would argue that increasing capacity on this section will only release currently suppressed demand. Have we also got an answer yet as to the level of structure and hard shoulder reconstruction that is required for 6-8? It's a fairly old section of motorway, and so I don't think that it's going to be as straightforward as putting in a couple of ERAs, a concrete barrier, and getting out the white paint...

The section between Brampton and the Black Cat on the otherhand has a number of at grade junctions, poor alignments, and contributes to significant local severence in the villages mentioned above. While it is less busy clearly than the D4M section between Alconbury and Peterborough, there is still a large amount of strategic traffic heading to/from distribution centres at Milton Keynes, and also using the A1/A421/M1 to route towards London. I would therefore argue that Brampton to the Black Cat is more urgent.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is availabile in the Digest forum.

Post Reply