A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

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EpicChef
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by EpicChef » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:22

ais523 wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2017 16:01
JohnnyMo wrote:by the time it is fully reopened as a D3(sM). ( Does SABRE have an official designation for all lane running motorways? )
I don't think there's an "official" designation, but I normally use D3ALR/D4ALR. It's at least obvious what that means.
I do that too. Perhaps we should get it ‘officialized?’
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by JohnnyMo » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:30

Berk wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 16:52
...
After all, if you deliver a scheme with a hard shoulder today, it can be smartened (temporarily) in the future.

My biggest problem with smart schemes is that they’re not particularly cheap, or good value for money. They would represent about 75% of the cost of a full widening scheme anyway.

Must be good for box-tickers, though...
More so if the scheme is designed with the view the the road will be smartened mid-life.
Such as adding bays beyond the hard shoulder by the emergency phones. So drivers can safely use the drivers door. Families can safely remain in the car without the risk of being rear ended.
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by thatapanydude » Tue Sep 24, 2019 13:01

Any news considering a March 2020 start was the aim?

Personally, my hope is that this scheme is scrapped in favour of a proper widening scheme with hard shoulders.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Johnathan404 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 13:07

thatapanydude wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 13:01
Personally, my hope is that this scheme is scrapped in favour of a proper widening scheme with hard shoulders.
Extremely unlikely given that Highways England have explicitly said they will never build a hard shoulder again. You're entitled to prefer it but that's just not the way things are done any more.
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Herned » Tue Sep 24, 2019 14:49

Johnathan404 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 13:07
thatapanydude wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 13:01
Personally, my hope is that this scheme is scrapped in favour of a proper widening scheme with hard shoulders.
Extremely unlikely given that Highways England have explicitly said they will never build a hard shoulder again. You're entitled to prefer it but that's just not the way things are done any more.
They also said not too long ago that they wouldn't build any more motorways, and that the A14 was definitely not going to be one. So a pinch of salt is required. 'Never' might last until the next Transport Minister changes the policy

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Johnathan404 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 15:07

Herned wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 14:49
They also said not too long ago that they wouldn't build any more motorways, and that the A14 was definitely not going to be one. So a pinch of salt is required. 'Never' might last until the next Transport Minister changes the policy
The Transport Minister hasn't changed and they haven't changed their policy so you're saying the proposal definitely won't have changed?

Realistically I think a change in legal classification was much more predictable than them turning their back on technology which is, as society insists on telling us, the future.
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Herned » Tue Sep 24, 2019 15:41

Johnathan404 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 15:07
The Transport Minister hasn't changed and they haven't changed their policy so you're saying the proposal definitely won't have changed?

Realistically I think a change in legal classification was much more predictable than them turning their back on technology which is, as society insists on telling us, the future.
I'm saying that it's their current position, and it's possible it could change according to the political mood. Unlikely I agree, but 'never' requires a 20/20 crystal ball

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 17:32

It's the Ford Pintonomics argument. The costs of not providing hard shoulders are still more beneficial than the costs of providing them even if there is a fatality.

Why would you spend millions on a strip of asphalt that will not be used to its full potential?
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Herned » Tue Sep 24, 2019 19:11

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 17:32
It's the Ford Pintonomics argument. The costs of not providing hard shoulders are still more beneficial than the costs of providing them even if there is a fatality.

Why would you spend millions on a strip of asphalt that will not be used to its full potential?
That's not the point I was making, I was simply saying that things change, often overnight. I wasn't trying to get into the hardshoulder good/bad argument

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by EpicChef » Tue Sep 24, 2019 19:11

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 17:32
It's the Ford Pintonomics argument. The costs of not providing hard shoulders are still more beneficial than the costs of providing them even if there is a fatality.

Why would you spend millions on a strip of asphalt that will not be used to its full potential?
Makes sense - but perhaps the solution was DHSR. When traffic can make do with one lane less, we reserve a lane for emergencies. And only when it's congested enough to reduce traffic speeds to a safe level is the hard shoulder opened as much-needed extra capacity. If we just tweaked the design of the lane control (e.g. using green arrows and red Xs) then it might be much clearer.
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 19:40

Herned wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 19:11
Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 17:32
It's the Ford Pintonomics argument. The costs of not providing hard shoulders are still more beneficial than the costs of providing them even if there is a fatality.

Why would you spend millions on a strip of asphalt that will not be used to its full potential?
That's not the point I was making, I was simply saying that things change, often overnight. I wasn't trying to get into the hardshoulder good/bad argument
No I know but that's the position ministers will take - what's cheapest.
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Wed Jan 08, 2020 13:07


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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by JohnnyMo » Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:41

jackal wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 13:07
Construction to start in March.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/
Isn't that when the budget is, when all infrastructure expenditure will be directed to "The North" :cry:

Or is this the new North. :twisted:
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by thatapanydude » Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:49

Can't say I am too pleased to be honest. I would have rather waited a few years for a proper widening job personally. Though seeing this is in Shapps constituency it's a no brainer to get the ball rolling with it.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Wed Jan 08, 2020 17:04

thatapanydude wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:49
Can't say I am too pleased to be honest. I would have rather waited a few years for a proper widening job personally.
Might have been more than a few years considering how little space there is:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.84129 ... a=!3m1!1e3

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by trickstat » Wed Jan 08, 2020 18:05

thatapanydude wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:49
Can't say I am too pleased to be honest. I would have rather waited a few years for a proper widening job personally. Though seeing this is in Shapps constituency it's a no brainer to get the ball rolling with it.
To be pedantic the majority of the works fall in the Stevenage constituency. Of course the effects on certain neighbouring constituencies are not insignificant.

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by c2R » Wed Jan 08, 2020 18:11

jackal wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 17:04
thatapanydude wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:49
Can't say I am too pleased to be honest. I would have rather waited a few years for a proper widening job personally.
Might have been more than a few years considering how little space there is:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.84129 ... a=!3m1!1e3

You do have to be impressed how the total lack of foresight has allowed the construction of houses right up to the carriageway boundary... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.84347 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by jackal » Wed Jan 08, 2020 18:43

trickstat wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 18:05
thatapanydude wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:49
Can't say I am too pleased to be honest. I would have rather waited a few years for a proper widening job personally. Though seeing this is in Shapps constituency it's a no brainer to get the ball rolling with it.
To be pedantic the majority of the works fall in the Stevenage constituency. Of course the effects on certain neighbouring constituencies are not insignificant.
Tbf the scheme was announced back in 2014/15 when Patrick McLoughlin was transport secretary and Mr Shapps (or should that be Mr Green?) was in the news for other reasons.

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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by Bryn666 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 19:17

JohnnyMo wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:41
jackal wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 13:07
Construction to start in March.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/
Isn't that when the budget is, when all infrastructure expenditure will be directed to "The North" :cry:

Or is this the new North. :twisted:
Must be imagining Crossrail and the Silvertown Tunnel then?
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Re: A1(M) Junction 6 to Junction 8 Smart Motorway

Post by trickstat » Wed Jan 08, 2020 19:22

JohnnyMo wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 15:41
jackal wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 13:07
Construction to start in March.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/
Isn't that when the budget is, when all infrastructure expenditure will be directed to "The North" :cry:

Or is this the new North. :twisted:
No, as my mother once said it's no man's land - north of Watford but south of Watford Gap.

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