Bad/Unnecessary Primary Destinations.

[crowntown100]

Exactly, yet it appears on a mileage destination sign just outside Penzance. And it does again after the Mount Misery roundabout too!

Where else should it point to? There's no primary destinations west of Penzance (and quite rightly). Otherwise you'd just have signs saying:

[A30]

...and that would be it.

Maybe Sennen? or Land's End Airport? But it is unique, though I think Land's End should only appear on signs from Mount Misery onwards

I think signs usually say the next PD and the next one after that. As there is no PD west of Penzance, they have to pick a suitable destination after that. Everyone has heard of Lands End (and have all heard of John O'Groats), so why go with Sennen as the next destination when Lands End is both at the end of the road and one of the best know places in the British Isles.

[Osthagen]

Exactly, yet it appears on a mileage destination sign just outside Penzance. And it does again after the Mount Misery roundabout too!

Where else should it point to? There's no primary destinations west of Penzance (and quite rightly). Otherwise you'd just have signs saying:

[A30]

...and that would be it.

Maybe Sennen? or Land's End Airport? But it is unique, though I think Land's End should only appear on signs from Mount Misery onwards

If a significant proportion of traffic are heading for a non-PD place (or nearabouts) or if said place has some kind of significance, it is not unusual at all for them to be featured on RCSs on primary roads. It is for this reason that John O' Groats is signed on the A9 north of Dornoch (at about 86 miles!).

Non-PDs are also used when there is are little to no PDs on the route. On the A76 in Dumfries, the nearest PD on the route (and the only other, too) is Kilmarnock, about 60 miles away. Therefore, the RCSs feature non-PDs such as Sanquhar and Cumnock.

One place where non-PDs are used somewhat unnecessarily in my opinion is the A74(M). Signs there give you places like Lockerbie, Gretna, Ecclefechan, Beattock & Kirkpatrick-Fleming. Of those, maybe Lockerbie & Gretna are appropriate for signage. There are furthermore plenty of appropriate PDs for that area (Penrith, Newcastle (via A69), Preston, Motherwell (add to PD list), Dumfries)

[Lewis1997]

One that is closer to home is in Haverhill. When Tesco was built, it required some new road realignment, thus new signage for the roundabouts. They both read "Sturmer A1017" and "Clare A1092". These are both completely uneccessary as the A1017 runs to Gosfield (A1124 to Colchester, a PD) and the A1092 to Long Melford (A134 to Sudbury, another PD).

[Bfivethousand]

Where else should it point to? There's no primary destinations west of Penzance (and quite rightly). Otherwise you'd just have signs saying:

[A30]

...and that would be it.

Maybe Sennen? or Land's End Airport? But it is unique, though I think Land's End should only appear on signs from Mount Misery onwards

I think signs usually say the next PD and the next one after that. As there is no PD west of Penzance, they have to pick a suitable destination after that. Everyone has heard of Lands End (and have all heard of John O'Groats), so why go with Sennen as the next destination when Lands End is both at the end of the road and one of the best know places in the British Isles.

Is this not all academic? I assumed the A30 west of Penzance was non-primary anyway. Pretty much all of the direction signs on that stretch would allude to that.

[Osthagen]

One that is closer to home is in Haverhill. When Tesco was built, it required some new road realignment, thus new signage for the roundabouts. They both read "Sturmer A1017" and "Clare A1092". These are both completely uneccessary as the A1017 runs to Gosfield (A1124 to Colchester, a PD) and the A1092 to Long Melford (A134 to Sudbury, another PD).

But neither the A1017 or the A1092 are primary.

[crowntown100]

Is this not all academic? I assumed the A30 west of Penzance was non-primary anyway. Pretty much all of the direction signs on that stretch would allude to that.

Completely. The a lot of the signs on the A30 towards Lands End are actually Brown, as it is a tourist desination. Apart from a few signs that are green that suggest otherwise (not that they should be), it is still non-primary.

[Lewis1997]

One that is closer to home is in Haverhill. When Tesco was built, it required some new road realignment, thus new signage for the roundabouts. They both read "Sturmer A1017" and "Clare A1092". These are both completely uneccessary as the A1017 runs to Gosfield (A1124 to Colchester, a PD) and the A1092 to Long Melford (A134 to Sudbury, another PD).

But neither the A1017 or the A1092 are primary.

Not now, but one could argue that maybe the tradition should follow on with regards to the A1017 (how it was once the A604 and primary).

[Lewis1997]

I think Brentwood is another one. Not of widespread use on the A12, but pretty sure it does appear from time to time. Don't think it is necessary, with Romford and Chelmsford being so near to each other, and the M25 along this length so adding Brentwood into the mix complicates things further

[Runwell]

Brentwood first appears on the A12 at 37 Miles London-bound, after the Colchester/Clacton/Harwich turn. It also used to be signed at 40 miles on the A120 after the Frating on slip, but the sign has since had Brentwood and Chelmsford removed by its replacement.

Brentwood has been added to more distance signs on the HE stretch over the last ten years, whenever there has been a major maintenance scheme on a particular section of the A12. I suspect once the Chelmsford bypass is eventually widened it will accompany London on the new signs or gantries. Not really sure it's justified until you get to Boreham tbh.

Romford only gets mentioned at the M25 junction. It's seen as slightly more important at the other end, where it's mentioned from the Redbridge roundabout. From the same direction, Brentwood is also only mentioned from Gallows Corner - about three miles down the road.

[Runwell]

Puckeridge was absurd the reason was because the A120 west ended there at the junction with the A10 the road never continued west Blame the Romans Stane St stopped here !

Drove along the A120 stretch east of Braintree this week, and the signs for Puckeridge are still there! Maybe these are not going to be replaced, and it was just for warning signage etc? They are still doing work overnight on the whole stretch, so they could still change them, but I think that's unlikely now.

[Stevie D]

Romford only gets mentioned at the M25 junction. It's seen as slightly more important at the other end, where it's mentioned from the Redbridge roundabout.

Primary destinations within London are usually only signed from within London, although some long-standing major destinations may be signed from further afield.

[Osthagen]

I think Brentwood is another one. Not of widespread use on the A12, but pretty sure it does appear from time to time. Don't think it is necessary, with Romford and Chelmsford being so near to each other, and the M25 along this length so adding Brentwood into the mix complicates things further

Brentwood is not a Primary Destination.

Just because a location is listed as a destination a Primary Route, that doesn't mean that it is a Primary Destination, as I have explained already.

Non-Primary Destinations are often used on RCS when there is a lack of suitable PDs to sign. It is for this reason that, for example, Sanquhar & Cumnock are signed on the A76.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Just because a location is listed as a destination a Primary Route, that doesn't mean that it is a Primary Destination, as I have explained already.

Non-Primary Destinations are often used on RCS when there is a lack of suitable PDs to sign. It is for this reason that, for example, Sanquhar & Cumnock are signed on the A76.

Because towns and villages can be very few and far between in the Scottish Highlands, even very small settlements can appear on RCS on primary routes north of Glasgow. Examples include Bridge of Orchy, Glencoe village, Ballachulish, Spean Bridge and Invergarry on the A82, Shiel Bridge, Dornie and Balmacara on the A87, Glenfinnan and Lochailort on the A830.

[Osthagen]

And back here yet again!

I would personally say that Dunfermline should be added to the PD list. It large enough to warrant a spur (with its own number!) from the M90. I also believe that it is the largest settlement on the road between Edinburgh & Inverness.

[jackal]

"Gove demands Camberley must feature on new M3 signs after Highways England says it's 'not a primary destination'"

Yes, that Gove.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey- ... e-13641351

[Bryn666]

Yet again clueless politicians interfering with the road network.

HE need to show some minerals and tell him to jog on if he starts hassling Grayling.

[Halmyre]

And back here yet again!

I would personally say that Dunfermline should be added to the PD list. It large enough to warrant a spur (with its own number!) from the M90. I also believe that it is the largest settlement on the road between Edinburgh & Inverness.

I thought Perth was larger but looking at the figures, Dunfermline just shades it, and Inverness, for population. Either way, my Dunfermline-born wife would agree with you!

There's a similar situation in the west where poor old Dumbarton gets left off the route signs in favour of the Erskine Bridge.

[Osthagen]

And back here yet again!

I would personally say that Dunfermline should be added to the PD list. It large enough to warrant a spur (with its own number!) from the M90. I also believe that it is the largest settlement on the road between Edinburgh & Inverness.

I thought Perth was larger but looking at the figures, Dunfermline just shades it, and Inverness, for population. Either way, my Dunfermline-born wife would agree with you!

There's a similar situation in the west where poor old Dumbarton gets left off the route signs in favour of the Erskine Bridge.

Erskine Bridge should, as with all bridges & tunnels (bar the Forth Road Bridge & Dartford), be removed from the list of Primary Destinations.

I think I'd agree too that Dumbarton would be a suitable replacement.

"Gove demands Camberley must feature on new M3 signs after Highways England says it's 'not a primary destination'"

Yes, that Gove.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey- ... e-13641351

As Bryn said, clueless politicians interfering with the road system.

Exactly how many primary routes meet at Camberley? How useful is it to the majority of M3 based traffic?

[Altnabreac]

Newtonmore is a bit of a pointless PD.

Very few people will be heading for Newtonmore itself and it's only a useful junction for those heading from Moray - Lochaber who will be a small group of users.

Replacing it with Dalwhinnie and Aviemore would be much more useful.

In Scotland I'd also add:
Lochgilphead - county town
Kennacraig - port
Cairnryan - port

I'd potentially be tempted to replace Crianlarich with Tyndrum which is equally useful as a junction and much more likely to be the place long distance travellers are planning to stop at.

[Osthagen]

Replacing [Newtonmore] with Dalwhinnie and Aviemore would be much more useful.

I don't think there's much need to replace Newtonmore with both Dalwhinnie & Aviemore. I'd just stick to one of the other, personally.

My pick would be Aviemore.

I should note that BOTH Dalwhinnie & Aviemore, despite not having primary status, are listed on the RCS (heading north from Perth you get 'Aviemore 79')

Obviously, Inverness would still be the main Forward Destination heading north & Perth when heading south.