A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Most of CD195 is so gold plated it immediately tips most work to meet its requirements into " economically unviable".
I can't help but think that's deliberate.
I can't help but think that's deliberate.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
While the idea may be shelved, the fact remains that the schemes on the ground haven't particularly changed.Debaser wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 18:17Several of the HE schemes I've worked on over the past 5 years were initially discussed as being potential expressways - none, that's none, have gone on to be expressways. It seems to me to be an idea that's been quietly dropped, at least for now.solocle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 17:27 I really, really do not appreciate online duallings. Hence my query about NMU alternatives. And of course there's the spectre of "expressway", which means we're getting a motorway-esque road without the provision for NMUs, at least on adjacent stretches of road. If you build a motorway, you have to provide for prohibited traffic. If you build a motorway with green signs, and maintain it as all purpose, you don't, but the motorists can effectively bully NMUs off that route. That's my worst fear with this scheme.
The lack of decent NMU infrastructure is in part a result of how long these schemes take to develop - just because CD195 or LTN1/20 are published does not mean the handbrake is applied and a scheme is suddenly redesigned based on these new standards - and also it's partly down to who is involved in the design, who runs the scheme and what do they want out of it, both from Highways England's side and from the consultant doing the actual design.
Let me loose on a design and I'd like to think the resulting infrastructure would have you believe you were in the Netherlands, with wide tracks, cycle priority over accesses and side roads and decent grade separated crossings of the mainline. But that depends upon many things, from workload within the company limiting who is available to do what, and whether those project leaders within the company and at Highways England actually want that level of infrastructure, or just enough to keep the various campaign groups quiet [/cynicism].
Particularly concerning is that this map from the 2016 expressway proposal, is effectively identifying non-dualled sections of the A303. With absolutely zero consideration for the many, many miles of online dualling. I.e. Highways England thinking they can build a contiguous dual carriageway, and it become an expressway, with absolutely zero ****s given about NMUs.
Although a contiguous dual carriageway that's legal to use is marginally better, the fact remains that, if it looks like an expressway, it'll be treated like an expressway. I.e. basically like a motorway.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
And confirmed:
Highways England wrote:
Thank you for your email on 28 July about non-motorised user provisions on the A303 Sparkford to Ilchester Dualling scheme.
I’ve answered each of your questions below –
Are there any proposed restrictions on such usage?
There are no legal restrictions on cyclists using the new A303.
I note that there seems to be some network of "NMU routes" on your scheme overview map, including some proposed.
For information the attached document includes the final certified plans for the rights of way provision along the scheme. These were included as part of the scheme ‘s Development Consent Order (DCO) which was granted on 29 January 2021 by the Secretary of State for Transport.
What will be the design standard of these routes?
Design standards are as follows:
Bridleways utilising maintenance tracks = unbound access track constructed of a stone access track
Bridleways and footpaths = grassed routes, generally located away from the road or using the grass verge
Footways and shared footways (incl. cyclists and equestrians) = asphalt finish
Can you confirm that they do in fact form a coherent alternative route to the A303, as the map makes them look horribly disconnected?
An east-west NMU provision has been provided along the length of the scheme as per the attached plans, and with additional detail below:
From the west of the scheme to Downhead Lane, there will be a bridleway utilising a maintenance track
Downhead to Steart Hill Link, there will be a grassed bridleway
Steart Hill Link to Steart Hill Roundabout and to Howell Hill east will be a shared footway
Howell Hill east to Traits Lane will consist of a bridleway utilising maintenance track
Traits Lane to Gason Lane will be a grassed footpath (there will be no legal provision for cycle or equestrian use within this section)
Gason Lane to former A303 – utilising the existing road and grassed bridleway
Former A303 to Hazlegrove roundabout – utilising the grassed bridleway or former A303
Especially if you plan on imposing restrictions on the mainline A303, have you assessed the impact on journey time by using the NMU routes between Sparkford and Podimore?
As noted above, there are no legal restrictions on the mainline A303. Impacts on the NMU provision were assessed as part of the Environmental Statement submitted for the DCO examination. More information can be found in chapter 12 on the Planning Inspectorate’s website if you’d like to have a read: https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... nities.pdf
Finally, I note in your statutory consultation that you predict vastly increased traffic levels beyond the scheme boundaries in the near term - no doubt further increasing. In particular, +2300 AADT west of Podimore Roundabout, +2100 on the Sparkford Bypass, and +1700 on the A303 West of the Ilchester A37 trumpet interchange.Particularly the section of A303 between the A37 GSJ and South Petherton has no convenient alternatives for NMUs.
Similarly the A303 between Holton and the Sparkford Bypass requires a detour through South Cadbury to avoid, albeit of a lesser scale.
Have you assessed the impact of increased traffic on NMU journeys and safety?
The scheme impacts on the NMU provision were assessed as part of the Environmental Statement submitted as part of the DCO examination and can also be found in chapter 12, which I have shared above. The areas you identify above would have fallen outside of the assessment required for the NMU provision and as this is outside of the works boundary for the scheme works we’re unable to consider the NMU provision in these areas at this moment in time.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
That's pretty poor. It wouldn't take very much construction to put in a proper cycle route along the segment that is only getting a footpath. The and the lack of joined up routes is not good.
There is, however, a lot of work which would be needed for the Ilchester-South Petherton section to come close to expressway standard. As well as the roundabout there are a number of at grade junctions and central reservation gaps. Hopefully by the time they come to work on those they will have a more enlightened attitude to the needs of NMUs
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Yep - if you look at it through the expressway frame, the whole route is light years away. I cycled 25 miles on it a week ago - Popham to Stonehenge, with a detour via Sutton Scotney to finish up the A30 (I've now cycled the length of the A30 between London and Honiton!). That's very much one of the "highest quality" bits of the A303, with no at grade junctions - but I was surprised by just how many times I was on guard because I was passing a slip road, despite having driven that section numerous times. From an NMU perspective, though, the question is mostly of alternative routes. And there really aren't any that wouldn't add a significant bit of distance, bar going through Andover instead of around the bypass. As it happened, I was doing a journey where the A30 would have actually been slightly shorter... but there were good reasons for following the A303 instead. Popham, A30/M3 -> A303. This taster was basically unavoidable - it gave me a good opportunity to toss up the two route options.Herned wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:36That's pretty poor. It wouldn't take very much construction to put in a proper cycle route along the segment that is only getting a footpath. The and the lack of joined up routes is not good.
There is, however, a lot of work which would be needed for the Ilchester-South Petherton section to come close to expressway standard. As well as the roundabout there are a number of at grade junctions and central reservation gaps. Hopefully by the time they come to work on those they will have a more enlightened attitude to the needs of NMUs
The A303 was quiet, being the very early morning. This reduced my aversion to it as a route. The clincher? Services. The A30 as I remember has all of sweet FA.
I do actually intend on riding a western section of the A303 at the end of this month. Again, dependent on timings, but it saves a lot of elevation gain around Crewkerne and Chard: The Ilminster Bypass is of course fairly easy to avoid, and then I'm heading towards Yeovil. But were I trying to get to Ilchester, there's effectively no alternative to riding on the A303 along there (without adding a number of miles!). And this is the section that's probably going to greatly increase in traffic. What shocked me most was that their assessement of NMU needs is only within the scheme boundary (never mind the useless sh*te they come up with), rather than considering it as part of a cohesive network...
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The Walking, Cycling and Horse-riding Assessment and Review reports should be treating this as a large scheme, which means a study area extending 5km surrounding the scheme.solocle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 13:18 The Ilminster Bypass is of course fairly easy to avoid, and then I'm heading towards Yeovil. But were I trying to get to Ilchester, there's effectively no alternative to riding on the A303 along there (without adding a number of miles!). And this is the section that's probably going to greatly increase in traffic. What shocked me most was that their assessement of NMU needs is only within the scheme boundary (never mind the useless sh*te they come up with), rather than considering it as part of a cohesive network...
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Being relatively local to the area I don't think I would fancy cycling the western end of the A303, but I guess early in the morning it would be ok. Maybe do it on a day which is less likely to be riddled with caravanssolocle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 13:18 I do actually intend on riding a western section of the A303 at the end of this month. Again, dependent on timings, but it saves a lot of elevation gain around Crewkerne and Chard:
Capture.jpg
The Ilminster Bypass is of course fairly easy to avoid, and then I'm heading towards Yeovil. But were I trying to get to Ilchester, there's effectively no alternative to riding on the A303 along there (without adding a number of miles!). And this is the section that's probably going to greatly increase in traffic. What shocked me most was that their assessement of NMU needs is only within the scheme boundary (never mind the useless sh*te they come up with), rather than considering it as part of a cohesive network...
It's one of the oddities of the area that there are some places with a tight grid of adopted country lanes which are handy for cycling, and other areas have relatively little, mostly down to geography but quite often seemingly random too.
I am not at all surprised that they don't consider the wider effects, but as they "only" spent £35m on planning the road how could they possibly consider the wider picture?
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The timings are pretty fixed - I have a train from Templecombe to Penzance for Saturday 28th, arriving around 2pm. I know, bank holiday weekend. Then it's a case of getting lunch, and sauntering down to Land's End. I'm working based on that being 5pm, it might be an hour earlier.Herned wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 13:53Being relatively local to the area I don't think I would fancy cycling the western end of the A303, but I guess early in the morning it would be ok. Maybe do it on a day which is less likely to be riddled with caravanssolocle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 13:18 I do actually intend on riding a western section of the A303 at the end of this month. Again, dependent on timings, but it saves a lot of elevation gain around Crewkerne and Chard:
Capture.jpg
The Ilminster Bypass is of course fairly easy to avoid, and then I'm heading towards Yeovil. But were I trying to get to Ilchester, there's effectively no alternative to riding on the A303 along there (without adding a number of miles!). And this is the section that's probably going to greatly increase in traffic. What shocked me most was that their assessement of NMU needs is only within the scheme boundary (never mind the useless sh*te they come up with), rather than considering it as part of a cohesive network...
It's one of the oddities of the area that there are some places with a tight grid of adopted country lanes which are handy for cycling, and other areas have relatively little, mostly down to geography but quite often seemingly random too.
I am not at all surprised that they don't consider the wider effects, but as they "only" spent £35m on planning the road how could they possibly consider the wider picture?
Then it's sort of following the A30 corridor to Honiton. But after Hayle, the old A30 is a thing. I have to do the A30 between Carland and Chiverton Cross, which I suspect will be the nastiest bit of the whole ride - the big deviation is to the A39 and A395, then Tresmeer, to skirt around Bodmin Moor.
If my timings are right, I should hit that bit of the A303 around 8am on Sunday morning, but obviously, 150 miles in, moderately small changes in pace can have a big effect.
I can always go down the A30 instead, it's a route decision I'll make at the time. It's just that the A303 is obviously preferable as long as the traffic isn't too much of an issue. It's mostly downhill, too
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
So around 630 at Chiverton Cross? It should be pretty quiet at that time. If it were me I would be very tempted to just use the A30 across Bodmin Moor, it's not going to be at all busy at that time; the route via the A39 has pretty similar amounts of climbing and reaches a similar height, and might even be busier on a Saturday evening. Although definitely not if it is rainingsolocle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 15:38 The timings are pretty fixed - I have a train from Templecombe to Penzance for Saturday 28th, arriving around 2pm. I know, bank holiday weekend. Then it's a case of getting lunch, and sauntering down to Land's End. I'm working based on that being 5pm, it might be an hour earlier.
Then it's sort of following the A30 corridor to Honiton. But after Hayle, the old A30 is a thing. I have to do the A30 between Carland and Chiverton Cross, which I suspect will be the nastiest bit of the whole ride - the big deviation is to the A39 and A395, then Tresmeer, to skirt around Bodmin Moor.
If my timings are right, I should hit that bit of the A303 around 8am on Sunday morning, but obviously, 150 miles in, moderately small changes in pace can have a big effect.
I can always go down the A30 instead, it's a route decision I'll make at the time. It's just that the A303 is obviously preferable as long as the traffic isn't too much of an issue. It's mostly downhill, too
Once you get to the Blackdowns it will be empty at that time in the morning, and the A303 is far flatter and better from a cyclist's point of view as you say, although I imagine the descent through Yarcombe would be fun on a bike
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Hmm, it's definitely tempting - that was my initial inclination. It does look like it might be warm and sunny with a tailwind, which would be ideal for a dual carriageway! But at least if I have the A39 route prepared, the A30 route is much easier to navigate on the fly... The climb out of Yarcombe was definitely quite something when I was there.Herned wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 19:30So around 630 at Chiverton Cross? It should be pretty quiet at that time. If it were me I would be very tempted to just use the A30 across Bodmin Moor, it's not going to be at all busy at that time; the route via the A39 has pretty similar amounts of climbing and reaches a similar height, and might even be busier on a Saturday evening. Although definitely not if it is rainingsolocle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 15:38 The timings are pretty fixed - I have a train from Templecombe to Penzance for Saturday 28th, arriving around 2pm. I know, bank holiday weekend. Then it's a case of getting lunch, and sauntering down to Land's End. I'm working based on that being 5pm, it might be an hour earlier.
Then it's sort of following the A30 corridor to Honiton. But after Hayle, the old A30 is a thing. I have to do the A30 between Carland and Chiverton Cross, which I suspect will be the nastiest bit of the whole ride - the big deviation is to the A39 and A395, then Tresmeer, to skirt around Bodmin Moor.
If my timings are right, I should hit that bit of the A303 around 8am on Sunday morning, but obviously, 150 miles in, moderately small changes in pace can have a big effect.
I can always go down the A30 instead, it's a route decision I'll make at the time. It's just that the A303 is obviously preferable as long as the traffic isn't too much of an issue. It's mostly downhill, too
Once you get to the Blackdowns it will be empty at that time in the morning, and the A303 is far flatter and better from a cyclist's point of view as you say, although I imagine the descent through Yarcombe would be fun on a bike
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Mods, any chance this discussion about cycling the length of the A30 can be moved to another thread please (or forum?)
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The signs are up and work has started on the central section at least. Taken today, this is at West Camel halfway along the S2. Nothing visible at either end so far. Both laybys now closed. Completion March 2024, according to the sign.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Great to see this underway. While it might seem like an insignificant little scheme it closes the only single carriageway gap in the 28 miles between South Petherton and Mere. It also ends a remarkable three decade hiatus in dualling along the A303 corridor.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Yes, file under "quick wins".
There's some surprisingly low-hanging fruit left on the A303 - Wylye to Chicklade would surely cost pocket money to dual. I make it 2.1 miles to close that gap, which would eliminate another 2-into-1 situation and require no significant earthworks, especially if you could get away with making the Cow Drove turning a LILO. But I expect it'll probably come wrapped up in a Wylye to Mere scheme in RIS3 rather than a project in its own right.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Yep, it’s always struck me as odd that the Wylye- Stockton section hasn’t been dualled already - no awkward topography, no development and very little in the way of side accesses.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 21:16Yes, file under "quick wins".
There's some surprisingly low-hanging fruit left on the A303 - Wylye to Chicklade would surely cost pocket money to dual. I make it 2.1 miles to close that gap, which would eliminate another 2-into-1 situation and require no significant earthworks, especially if you could get away with making the Cow Drove turning a LILO. But I expect it'll probably come wrapped up in a Wylye to Mere scheme in RIS3 rather than a project in its own right.
I think the last improvement (Zeals-Bourton bypass) opened in 1992 so that would indeed mean a 32 year gap! Next stop 2028, when Stonehenge is open…..hopefully.
It’s also worth noting that this scheme was slated for ‘Start of Works’ back in 1997 when New Labour got hold of the roads programme, so one could also argue will be 25 years late in opening in itself….
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Wylye to Chicklade does indeed seem easy, but what would be the point? If you end up with a dual into single at the foot of Chicklade Hill then you haven't really gained much. And of course, it would be more difficult to dual up Chicklade Hill, through Willoughby Hedge and then to join up with Mere. I can see why it hasn't been done. To be honest, I've never really been held up on that stretch much, and I do use the road a fair bit. Now, Stonehenge is a different matter. Over the last months, I have never driven free flow along it.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 21:16Yes, file under "quick wins".
There's some surprisingly low-hanging fruit left on the A303 - Wylye to Chicklade would surely cost pocket money to dual. I make it 2.1 miles to close that gap, which would eliminate another 2-into-1 situation and require no significant earthworks, especially if you could get away with making the Cow Drove turning a LILO. But I expect it'll probably come wrapped up in a Wylye to Mere scheme in RIS3 rather than a project in its own right.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Because it is one less merge down to a single lane. It's not unusual in busy times for there to be a queue eastbound at Stockton Wood, or Westbound at the top of the Wylye Valley. Perhaps the belief is that queuing going west would be worse after a longer dual section, and therefore more dangerous at the bottom of the hill?
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Curiously Wylye to Chicklade was not individually costed in the 2015 report (see below) as the other dualling sections were, though it was included in the whole route costing. It would probably be very cheap even compared to Sparkford, especially if they can skip the GSJ, similar to A9 Kincraig to Dalraddy.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 21:16Yes, file under "quick wins".
There's some surprisingly low-hanging fruit left on the A303 - Wylye to Chicklade would surely cost pocket money to dual. I make it 2.1 miles to close that gap, which would eliminate another 2-into-1 situation and require no significant earthworks, especially if you could get away with making the Cow Drove turning a LILO. But I expect it'll probably come wrapped up in a Wylye to Mere scheme in RIS3 rather than a project in its own right.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
This reason for inaction ('why improve this piece when there's another such piece soon following) would kibosh many worthwhile improvement schemes.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Been looking at the Wylye to Mere section, and while the bit between Wylye and Chicklade seems easy enough, the next bit from Chicklade to Mere certainly isnt!. Any ideas as to how it couldbe done? I wondered if an offline route from the end of the current DC and roughly following the route of the B3089, bypassing Hindon and rejoining the current route at Willoghby Hedge might work? Although i suspect NH/HMG would want a cheaper online route as much as possible i suspect. Still no easy options around Chicklade itself though!
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