It's crazy to say that a single-carriageway can't be upgraded to a dual-carriageway because there is no alternative route ... so how do they think people manage at the moment if the road is blocked? At least with a dual-carriageway there is a better chance that only one half of the road is blocked and so either the other carriageway can be opened up as a contraflow or only a one-way diversion is needed on alternative routes (which makes it easier to implement). There seems to be a real problem with our traffic infrastructure where an existing installation can get away with being as crap as you like, but any new installation has to be so heavily gold-plated that many plans become unaffordable, so instead of having something that is considerably better than what was there before but not perfect, we end up with no improvement at all and everyone is worse off.A303Chris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:43The parallel access road is also interesting as the argument seems to be without one if an accident occurs there is no diversion route. Not uncommon on other sections of the A303, (Blackford to Chapel Cross, between Wincanton and Sparkford and the A338 to Amesbury come to mind). This seems to have been stirred up by the parish councils worried about traffic Queen Camel and West Camel to the south, if there is an accident. But this is no different to the current position if the A303 is closed here, the advantage being if DC it is more likely to be on one direction. Again are we going to need parallel roads for all new schemes, A30 Chiverton Cross to Carland does not have one for the full length and that was approved by PINS and the SOS last year.
A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
- hoagy_ytfc
- Member
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 00:10
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?JammyDodge wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Yep, that's the UK road network.Stevie D wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:08 There seems to be a real problem with our traffic infrastructure where an existing installation can get away with being as crap as you like, but any new installation has to be so heavily gold-plated that many plans become unaffordable, so instead of having something that is considerably better than what was there before but not perfect, we end up with no improvement at all and everyone is worse off.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Like other sections built in the last 30 years (Sparkford bypass, bit past Martock) it has compact GSJs. But unlike the roundabouts on those sections it doesn't really make any difference to the typical user.hoagy_ytfc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?JammyDodge wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
- hoagy_ytfc
- Member
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 00:10
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
-
- Member
- Posts: 8400
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 00:35
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The debate around compact GSJ's has always been around safety rather than congestion, particularly those that give no acceleration lanes such as here.hoagy_ytfc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 16:34 Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
That's true, but when the amount of turning traffic is low there is less of a problem if occasional vehicles have to slow right down when exiting, or go from a standing start when entering. And by the time you get to the Mere section of the A303, the mainline is usually a bit quieter than around Andover as well, so there is no great problem with having CGSJs. (Disclaimer: it's a long time since I've driven on the A303 so things may have changed in the meantime!)DavidBrown wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 17:22The debate around compact GSJ's has always been around safety rather than congestion, particularly those that give no acceleration lanes such as here.hoagy_ytfc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 16:34 Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
- JammyDodge
- Member
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 13:17
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Main issue with most other dualled sections of the A303 is short to non-existant slip roads. This is why I would discount the Wincanton and Mere Bypasses. For me at least, that completely disqualifies a D2 road that is fast (inter-urban not urban) from being of high qualityhoagy_ytfc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?JammyDodge wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Ironically, the design of this section of A303 actually included those modifications to the left-in/left-out slip roads.JammyDodge wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 19:14Main issue with most other dualled sections of the A303 is short to non-existant slip roads. This is why I would discount the Wincanton and Mere Bypasses. For me at least, that completely disqualifies a D2 road that is fast (inter-urban not urban) from being of high qualityhoagy_ytfc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?JammyDodge wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The concern for the Mattia Diner and petrol station is interesting.I had mentioned in the consultation that it will be left high and dry and why couldn't that bit of old A303 be the w/bnd on-slip, instead of a dead end. Apparently something to do with elevation and gradients, where it would join the D2.
The mention of a parallel road for diversions may be to do with the impact of Satnav in recent years. The old A303 from A357 Wincanton towards Sparkford gradually peters out until the point where it became online. Then it becomes an existing country lane via South Cadbury to rejoin the old A303 near Sparkford. A recent accident div was officially via A371 and A359 but, I reckoned some would try the old A303 and so it proved. Trouble is, the connection to A303 at Blackford had been coned off. Presumably the incident was west of there. This meant some U-turned but, some strayed around narrow lanes via Cadbury to find the A303. As it was March 14, with reduced traffic and a week before lockdown, there was no gridlock, just a few tight squeezes here and there.
A look at maps reveals just 1 mile of road is needed to link up the two sections to make a parallel route.
The mention of a parallel road for diversions may be to do with the impact of Satnav in recent years. The old A303 from A357 Wincanton towards Sparkford gradually peters out until the point where it became online. Then it becomes an existing country lane via South Cadbury to rejoin the old A303 near Sparkford. A recent accident div was officially via A371 and A359 but, I reckoned some would try the old A303 and so it proved. Trouble is, the connection to A303 at Blackford had been coned off. Presumably the incident was west of there. This meant some U-turned but, some strayed around narrow lanes via Cadbury to find the A303. As it was March 14, with reduced traffic and a week before lockdown, there was no gridlock, just a few tight squeezes here and there.
A look at maps reveals just 1 mile of road is needed to link up the two sections to make a parallel route.
Roads and holidays in the west, before motorways.
http://trektothewest.shutterfly.com
http://holidayroads.webs.com/
http://trektothewest.shutterfly.com
http://holidayroads.webs.com/
-
- Member
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 19:11
- Location: Leatherhead
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
It is simply madness that a trunk road scheme is being held back due to two private businesses possibly suffering a loss of trade.
Much like a CPO, pay them off with a decent amount of compensation, job done.
Much like a CPO, pay them off with a decent amount of compensation, job done.
Formerly ‘guvvaA303’
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
From my reading of the report, the NMU and especially the impact on RNAS Yeovilton are the main issues. The businesses are mentioned as needing further mitigation, but aren't the important issues. They have had at least 40 years notice that this might happen, so I have limited sympathyA320Driver wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 22:51 It is simply madness that a trunk road scheme is being held back due to two private businesses possibly suffering a loss of trade.
Much like a CPO, pay them off with a decent amount of compensation, job done.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Pretty sure the consultancy contract wasn't for 40 years!
Schemes like this that attract very little concern or resistance (the report says there is basically no opposition to the principle of the upgrade, only to minor details) are, perversely, particularly vulnerable to delays due to marginalia. For HS2 or the LTC they throw folders with thousands of objections into the shredder, so of course they won't hold things up because some local is worried about flytipping. But in this kind of case the examining authority still has a report to fill, and nothing much to write about, so every molehill becomes a mountain.
Schemes like this that attract very little concern or resistance (the report says there is basically no opposition to the principle of the upgrade, only to minor details) are, perversely, particularly vulnerable to delays due to marginalia. For HS2 or the LTC they throw folders with thousands of objections into the shredder, so of course they won't hold things up because some local is worried about flytipping. But in this kind of case the examining authority still has a report to fill, and nothing much to write about, so every molehill becomes a mountain.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
I did a ride along the country roads and Old A303 there not too long ago.SteveA30 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 21:46 The concern for the Mattia Diner and petrol station is interesting.I had mentioned in the consultation that it will be left high and dry and why couldn't that bit of old A303 be the w/bnd on-slip, instead of a dead end. Apparently something to do with elevation and gradients, where it would join the D2.
The mention of a parallel road for diversions may be to do with the impact of Satnav in recent years. The old A303 from A357 Wincanton towards Sparkford gradually peters out until the point where it became online. Then it becomes an existing country lane via South Cadbury to rejoin the old A303 near Sparkford. A recent accident div was officially via A371 and A359 but, I reckoned some would try the old A303 and so it proved. Trouble is, the connection to A303 at Blackford had been coned off. Presumably the incident was west of there. This meant some U-turned but, some strayed around narrow lanes via Cadbury to find the A303. As it was March 14, with reduced traffic and a week before lockdown, there was no gridlock, just a few tight squeezes here and there.
A look at maps reveals just 1 mile of road is needed to link up the two sections to make a parallel route.
It's hardly befitting of a diversion route, not least because of the westbound only junction.
But I do imagine that HE are viewing it as part of a future LAR.
The grades on that stretch are significant, the A303 would probably be gentler on the legs - but I'm invariably heading eastbound anyway, so the temptation isn't there.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
The secretary of state's letter was published in November, and HE and the MoD published a joint response in December. Things seem to be going in the right direction after the bird strike complication.
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ultation+4
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ultation+4
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Decision should be made by 29th January 2021 now, according to SoS.
It's surprising this one is taking longer than Stonehenge to get through
It's surprising this one is taking longer than Stonehenge to get through
The M25 - The road to nowhere
- hoagy_ytfc
- Member
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 00:10
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
It's a "yes"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a303 ... nt-consent
Development consent granted today
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a303 ... nt-consent
Development consent granted today
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Hooray, this is great news. After years and years of talking about it and bottlenecks along this stretch.
I guess that does explain the tree clearance etc at Podimore roundabout.
I guess that does explain the tree clearance etc at Podimore roundabout.
Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
Are there any plans to put a flyover on the Podimore roundabout? I can't seem to find much information about this project. Seems quite expensive (£100-£250 million) for 3 miles of online dualling.