A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

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Stevie D
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Stevie D »

A303Chris wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:43The parallel access road is also interesting as the argument seems to be without one if an accident occurs there is no diversion route. Not uncommon on other sections of the A303, (Blackford to Chapel Cross, between Wincanton and Sparkford and the A338 to Amesbury come to mind). This seems to have been stirred up by the parish councils worried about traffic Queen Camel and West Camel to the south, if there is an accident. But this is no different to the current position if the A303 is closed here, the advantage being if DC it is more likely to be on one direction. Again are we going to need parallel roads for all new schemes, A30 Chiverton Cross to Carland does not have one for the full length and that was approved by PINS and the SOS last year.
It's crazy to say that a single-carriageway can't be upgraded to a dual-carriageway because there is no alternative route ... so how do they think people manage at the moment if the road is blocked? At least with a dual-carriageway there is a better chance that only one half of the road is blocked and so either the other carriageway can be opened up as a contraflow or only a one-way diversion is needed on alternative routes (which makes it easier to implement). There seems to be a real problem with our traffic infrastructure where an existing installation can get away with being as crap as you like, but any new installation has to be so heavily gold-plated that many plans become unaffordable, so instead of having something that is considerably better than what was there before but not perfect, we end up with no improvement at all and everyone is worse off.
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hoagy_ytfc
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

JammyDodge wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by 85CF380 »

Stevie D wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:08 There seems to be a real problem with our traffic infrastructure where an existing installation can get away with being as crap as you like, but any new installation has to be so heavily gold-plated that many plans become unaffordable, so instead of having something that is considerably better than what was there before but not perfect, we end up with no improvement at all and everyone is worse off.
Yep, that's the UK road network.
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jackal
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by jackal »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47
JammyDodge wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?
Like other sections built in the last 30 years (Sparkford bypass, bit past Martock) it has compact GSJs. But unlike the roundabouts on those sections it doesn't really make any difference to the typical user.
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hoagy_ytfc
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

jackal wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 13:16 Like other sections built in the last 30 years (Sparkford bypass, bit past Martock) it has compact GSJs. But unlike the roundabouts on those sections it doesn't really make any difference to the typical user.
Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by DavidBrown »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 16:34 Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
The debate around compact GSJ's has always been around safety rather than congestion, particularly those that give no acceleration lanes such as here.
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Stevie D
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Stevie D »

DavidBrown wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 17:22
hoagy_ytfc wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 16:34 Surely the junctions are perfectly adequate for the amount of traffic using them?
The debate around compact GSJ's has always been around safety rather than congestion, particularly those that give no acceleration lanes such as here.
That's true, but when the amount of turning traffic is low there is less of a problem if occasional vehicles have to slow right down when exiting, or go from a standing start when entering. And by the time you get to the Mere section of the A303, the mainline is usually a bit quieter than around Andover as well, so there is no great problem with having CGSJs. (Disclaimer: it's a long time since I've driven on the A303 so things may have changed in the meantime!)
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JammyDodge
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by JammyDodge »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47
JammyDodge wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?
Main issue with most other dualled sections of the A303 is short to non-existant slip roads. This is why I would discount the Wincanton and Mere Bypasses. For me at least, that completely disqualifies a D2 road that is fast (inter-urban not urban) from being of high quality
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Debaser »

JammyDodge wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 19:14
hoagy_ytfc wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 00:47
JammyDodge wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 23:18 I think the only part of the A303 that is of excellent quality is the Andover Bypass section, opened in 1969 I think.
Really? What's wrong with, say, the section that linked the Wincanton and Mere bypasses?
Main issue with most other dualled sections of the A303 is short to non-existant slip roads. This is why I would discount the Wincanton and Mere Bypasses. For me at least, that completely disqualifies a D2 road that is fast (inter-urban not urban) from being of high quality
Ironically, the design of this section of A303 actually included those modifications to the left-in/left-out slip roads.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by SteveA30 »

The concern for the Mattia Diner and petrol station is interesting.I had mentioned in the consultation that it will be left high and dry and why couldn't that bit of old A303 be the w/bnd on-slip, instead of a dead end. Apparently something to do with elevation and gradients, where it would join the D2.

The mention of a parallel road for diversions may be to do with the impact of Satnav in recent years. The old A303 from A357 Wincanton towards Sparkford gradually peters out until the point where it became online. Then it becomes an existing country lane via South Cadbury to rejoin the old A303 near Sparkford. A recent accident div was officially via A371 and A359 but, I reckoned some would try the old A303 and so it proved. Trouble is, the connection to A303 at Blackford had been coned off. Presumably the incident was west of there. This meant some U-turned but, some strayed around narrow lanes via Cadbury to find the A303. As it was March 14, with reduced traffic and a week before lockdown, there was no gridlock, just a few tight squeezes here and there.

A look at maps reveals just 1 mile of road is needed to link up the two sections to make a parallel route.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by A320Driver »

It is simply madness that a trunk road scheme is being held back due to two private businesses possibly suffering a loss of trade.
Much like a CPO, pay them off with a decent amount of compensation, job done.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Herned »

A320Driver wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 22:51 It is simply madness that a trunk road scheme is being held back due to two private businesses possibly suffering a loss of trade.
Much like a CPO, pay them off with a decent amount of compensation, job done.
From my reading of the report, the NMU and especially the impact on RNAS Yeovilton are the main issues. The businesses are mentioned as needing further mitigation, but aren't the important issues. They have had at least 40 years notice that this might happen, so I have limited sympathy
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jackal
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by jackal »

Pretty sure the consultancy contract wasn't for 40 years!

Schemes like this that attract very little concern or resistance (the report says there is basically no opposition to the principle of the upgrade, only to minor details) are, perversely, particularly vulnerable to delays due to marginalia. For HS2 or the LTC they throw folders with thousands of objections into the shredder, so of course they won't hold things up because some local is worried about flytipping. But in this kind of case the examining authority still has a report to fill, and nothing much to write about, so every molehill becomes a mountain.
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solocle
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by solocle »

SteveA30 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 21:46 The concern for the Mattia Diner and petrol station is interesting.I had mentioned in the consultation that it will be left high and dry and why couldn't that bit of old A303 be the w/bnd on-slip, instead of a dead end. Apparently something to do with elevation and gradients, where it would join the D2.

The mention of a parallel road for diversions may be to do with the impact of Satnav in recent years. The old A303 from A357 Wincanton towards Sparkford gradually peters out until the point where it became online. Then it becomes an existing country lane via South Cadbury to rejoin the old A303 near Sparkford. A recent accident div was officially via A371 and A359 but, I reckoned some would try the old A303 and so it proved. Trouble is, the connection to A303 at Blackford had been coned off. Presumably the incident was west of there. This meant some U-turned but, some strayed around narrow lanes via Cadbury to find the A303. As it was March 14, with reduced traffic and a week before lockdown, there was no gridlock, just a few tight squeezes here and there.

A look at maps reveals just 1 mile of road is needed to link up the two sections to make a parallel route.
I did a ride along the country roads and Old A303 there not too long ago.
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It's hardly befitting of a diversion route, not least because of the westbound only junction.

But I do imagine that HE are viewing it as part of a future LAR.

The grades on that stretch are significant, the A303 would probably be gentler on the legs - but I'm invariably heading eastbound anyway, so the temptation isn't there.
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jackal
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by jackal »

The secretary of state's letter was published in November, and HE and the MoD published a joint response in December. Things seem to be going in the right direction after the bird strike complication.

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ultation+4
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A303Chris
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by A303Chris »

Decision should be made by 29th January 2021 now, according to SoS.

It's surprising this one is taking longer than Stonehenge to get through
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

It's a "yes"

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a303 ... nt-consent

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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by ryzzey »

Hooray, this is great news. After years and years of talking about it and bottlenecks along this stretch.

I guess that does explain the tree clearance etc at Podimore roundabout.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Herned »

Excellent news!
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by ABB125 »

Are there any plans to put a flyover on the Podimore roundabout? I can't seem to find much information about this project. Seems quite expensive (£100-£250 million) for 3 miles of online dualling.
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