A12 Renumbering - Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft

[Chris Bertram]

The A47 in Birmingham is a bit of a weird one, it's not the original A47 alignment (obviously), and it ends on the A452. A4747 is free and given the A38 is merely yards to the north, it seems stupid to have two 2da routes next to each other.

From the Ring Road out to the roundabout at the beginning of the Saltley Viaduct it's more-or-less on its original alignment, though improved. But it does seem odd to have kept it so far detached from the main body of the road.

Or, in true Birmingham style, why not have the B347

Wash your mouth out ...

[Owain]

A47 is non-primary within Birmingham, including the Fort/Heartlands Parkway. It *is* primary from where it reappears in Nuneaton all the way to Lowestoft, I think even including the section through Leicester city centre. And of course it doesn't have a junction with the M1!

It is indeed primary from Nuneaton, but I'm not sure that it retains primary status all the way to Leicester.

Perhaps that's why it doesn't have a junction with the M1!.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

The suggestions of using the A150 to replace the A16 Peterborough – King's Lynn section is a better one I hadn't thought of, as the A148/A149 meet up there anyway, it would help retain a cohesive network, and reusing the A16 number from the A1 at Newark to Grimsby along the former A46 again helps with a logical network of numbers, and doing away with the A52 east of Grantham in favour of A152 (with the existing A152 downgraded to B117x or B118x) could be done with minor patching alterations to signs rather than complete replacement!

The A52 has no dual or high–quality S2 east of Grantham so me thinks a three–digit number would be fine for it!!!!

Chris Williams

[A9NWIL]

Hi!

The suggestions of using the A150 to replace the A16 Peterborough – King's Lynn section is a better one I hadn't thought of, as the A148/A149 meet up there anyway, it would help retain a cohesive network, and reusing the A16 number from the A1 at Newark to Grimsby along the former A46 again helps with a logical network of numbers, and doing away with the A52 east of Grantham in favour of A152 (with the existing A152 downgraded to B117x or B118x) could be done with minor patching alterations to signs rather than complete replacement!

The A52 has no dual or high–quality S2 east of Grantham so me thinks a three–digit number would be fine for it!!!!

Chris Williams

Sounds like a big renumbering job could be done to downgrade roads of non primary status.

[Owain]

Hi!

The suggestions of using the A150 to replace the A16 Peterborough – King's Lynn section is a better one I hadn't thought of, as the A148/A149 meet up there anyway, it would help retain a cohesive network, and reusing the A16 number from the A1 at Newark to Grimsby along the former A46 again helps with a logical network of numbers, and doing away with the A52 east of Grantham in favour of A152 (with the existing A152 downgraded to B117x or B118x) could be done with minor patching alterations to signs rather than complete replacement!

The A52 has no dual or high–quality S2 east of Grantham so me thinks a three–digit number would be fine for it!!!!

Chris Williams

Sounds like a big renumbering job could be done to downgrade roads of non primary status.

The problem there is that you split the A46 - which is an important and coherent route from Leicester to Lincoln - in half!

If you wish to reorganise A1x numbers to cover the most important routes east of the M1, it would make sense to do something like this:

A12 - restore to Great Yarmouth (the recent renumbering is silly!)
A14 - as present
A15 - redirect southern end around Peterborough A1139 to meet A1(M) at J17
A16 - Leicester (M1) to Grimsby
A17 - Heath (M1) to Great Yarmouth
A18 - Leicester (A16) to King's Lynn (A17)
A150 - Peterborough to Grimsby (former A16)
A152 - former A52 to the north-east of Boston
A175 - Doncaster to Ludborough (former A18)

Several of these cross the 1 zone boundary 'illegally', but as the A14 already does it, I see no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable in order to create coherent routes.

[Chris Bertram]

The problem there is that you split the A46 - which is an important and coherent route from Leicester to Lincoln - in half!

The A46 is quite used to being chopped into pieces, cf the missing sections between Cov and Leicester, and between Cheltenham and Tewkesbury.

[Owain]

The problem there is that you split the A46 - which is an important and coherent route from Leicester to Lincoln - in half!

The A46 is quite used to being chopped into pieces, cf the missing sections between Cov and Leicester, and between Cheltenham and Tewkesbury.

I know! I just wish people would show more respect for it!!

It is such a great road.

[A9NWIL]

Hi!

The suggestions of using the A150 to replace the A16 Peterborough – King's Lynn section is a better one I hadn't thought of, as the A148/A149 meet up there anyway, it would help retain a cohesive network, and reusing the A16 number from the A1 at Newark to Grimsby along the former A46 again helps with a logical network of numbers, and doing away with the A52 east of Grantham in favour of A152 (with the existing A152 downgraded to B117x or B118x) could be done with minor patching alterations to signs rather than complete replacement!

The A52 has no dual or high–quality S2 east of Grantham so me thinks a three–digit number would be fine for it!!!!

Chris Williams

Sounds like a big renumbering job could be done to downgrade roads of non primary status.

The problem there is that you split the A46 - which is an important and coherent route from Leicester to Lincoln - in half!

If you wish to reorganise A1x numbers to cover the most important routes east of the M1, it would make sense to do something like this:

A12 - restore to Great Yarmouth (the recent renumbering is silly!)
A14 - as present
A15 - redirect southern end around Peterborough A1139 to meet A1(M) at J17
A16 - Leicester (M1) to Grimsby
A17 - Heath (M1) to Great Yarmouth
A18 - Leicester (A16) to King's Lynn (A17)
A150 - Peterborough to Grimsby (former A16)
A152 - former A52 to the north-east of Boston
A175 - Doncaster to Ludborough (former A18)

Several of these cross the 1 zone boundary 'illegally', but as the A14 already does it, I see no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable in order to create coherent routes.

Well my thoughts are that seeing as the A14 goes to the M1 the M1 could become the new defacto 1 zone boundary swallowing a vast number of 5 and 6 roads with it. Those 5 and 6 roads don't have to be remembered if it's not cost effective but if there is any important ones they can.
South of the M25 can be left alone anyway as the A1 and M1 meet somewhere close to there anyway.
I wouldn't just do this for the 1 zone numbers though all zones with 2 digit non primary routes could have those roads made into 3 or 4 digit roads freeing up lots of 2 digit A road numbers for more important routes.
I would also look at any dual carriageway routes that are long distance and give them a new N number e.g. the A14, the A34, A43, the A417/A419 and others, to start to set them apart from A roads. Their current numbers would remain unless they have a 3 digit number which would become a new 2 digit N number. This would also free up A numbers to reuse. Roads like the A1/A1(M) could become the N1/N1(M) or rather N10/M10.

[A9NWIL]

The problem there is that you split the A46 - which is an important and coherent route from Leicester to Lincoln - in half!

The A46 is quite used to being chopped into pieces, cf the missing sections between Cov and Leicester, and between Cheltenham and Tewkesbury.

Those non primary bits should get their own new numbers now.

[jackal]

An FOI response that may be of interest:

a) the total cost of the renaming exercise
The total cost of the re-designation of the A12 between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft
was £746,345.50
b) a high level breakdown of the costs
Scheme design £ 64,764.11
Supervision £ 41,071.39
Work costs £637,510.00

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... dacted.pdf

[A303Chris]

Thought I bump this thread instead of starting a new, but here is another interesting FOI with regards opening dates of various improvements along the former A12 now A47 between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft.

[A303Chris]

Another interesting FOI, which states the Bascule Bridge in the centre of Lowestoft is trunked and maintained by the HE.

Found this interesting as the signposted route through the town between the A12 and a47 is via A1117 via Oulton Board, and I was of the opinion the HE didn't trunk roads through towns. For example the A21 stops being trunk when it crosses into Hastings District at Baldslow and the A259 is not trunked between Bachelor's Bump and Glyne Gap as it passes through Hastings with both roads reverting to East Sussex control.

[Steven]

I was of the opinion the HE didn't trunk roads through towns.

A lot of that is due to historic factors of roads not being trunked in County Boroughs - which is really easy to see on the 1956 Ten Mile Map available on SABRE Maps.

[A303Chris]

I was of the opinion the HE didn't trunk roads through towns.

A lot of that is due to historic factors of roads not being trunked in County Boroughs - which is really easy to see on the 1956 Ten Mile Map available on SABRE Maps.

Good point, the A4 was never trunked through Reading which was a County Borough until 1974

[Burwellian]

It is indeed primary from Nuneaton, but I'm not sure that it retains primary status all the way to Leicester.

Conscious I'm replying to a post a year and a bit old but, the signage says otherwise? Not sure it's primary at all west of Leicester.

[Glenn A]

An FOI response that may be of interest:

a) the total cost of the renaming exercise
The total cost of the re-designation of the A12 between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft
was £746,345.50
b) a high level breakdown of the costs
Scheme design £ 64,764.11
Supervision £ 41,071.39
Work costs £637,510.00

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... dacted.pdf

What a pointless waste of money, it could have been better spent on road improvements.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Conscious I'm replying to a post a year and a bit old but, the signage says otherwise? Not sure it's primary at all west of Leicester.

According to the Ordnance Survey, the only part of the A47 which is primary west of Leicester is the section between Nuneaton town centre and the A5 Long Shoot. However, the AA road mapping for 2019 and 2020 shows that section of the A47 in red i.e. non-primary. The A47 is wholly non-primary within Birmingham.

[Viator]

the AA road mapping for 2019 and 2020 shows that section of the A47 [between Nuneaton town centre and the A5 Long Shoot] in red i.e. non-primary.

Yes, I agree with that, and current signage confirms it.
Slightly tangentially: can anyone confirm my belief that the whole of the Nuneaton Ring Road (the western part of which was once, it seems, regarded as being part of the A47) is now numbered A444?

[Berk]

A47 is non-primary within Birmingham, including the Fort/Heartlands Parkway. It *is* primary from where it reappears in Nuneaton all the way to Lowestoft, I think even including the section through Leicester city centre. And of course it doesn't have a junction with the M1!

It is indeed primary from Nuneaton, but I'm not sure that it retains primary status all the way to Leicester.

Perhaps that's why it doesn't have a junction with the M1!.

I thought the section from the A5 to Uppingham Road was fully non-primary?? The section through Hinckley and Earl Shilton is shaded red on the Landranger map (not that the OS is terribly known for its accuracy these days).

[Owain]

Slightly tangentially: can anyone confirm my belief that the whole of the Nuneaton Ring Road (the western part of which was once, it seems, regarded as being part of the A47) is now numbered A444?

I believe so... I drove the A444 from Coventry to the M42 about a month ago, and was directed around the western side rather than the eastern, following A444.