A500 Etruria widening

[A303Chris]

I have just received this from the HE about widening the A500 in the Potteries from the A527 to A5271 to three lanes. You think great then read in "It is proposed the speed limit will be lowered from 70mph to 50mph, for safety and consistency with other parts of the route in urban areas"

Why, I know why it is to keep the environmentalists happy but when we all have hydrogen cars or electric ones in 30 years time will the limits be raised

[Bryn666]

It'd be a very tight three lanes in fairness, not quite Kingston Bypass but still probably a bit iffy at 70.

We're stuck with these kind of stupid limits though whilst skilled engineers become scarcer and scarcer and automatons fresh out of university who only know how to quote a design manual but have no idea what it really means take over.

[vlad]

Depending on exactly how far the 50 limit is going to be extended it's "only" about another mile. That 50 limit is creeping north steadily....

It's going to be a pretty short D3 section anyway.

[roadtester]

I have just received this from the HE about widening the A500 in the Potteries from the A527 to A5271 to three lanes. You think great then read in "It is proposed the speed limit will be lowered from 70mph to 50mph, for safety and consistency with other parts of the route in urban areas"

Why, I know why it is to keep the environmentalists happy but when we all have hydrogen cars or electric ones in 30 years time will the limits be raised

It doesn't seem to mention environmental considerations.

If the choice is between something that can flow at 50 mph under a 50 mph limit and a two-laner with a 70 that only crawls, it's probably worth it.

[Berk]

It'd be a very tight three lanes in fairness, not quite Kingston Bypass but still probably a bit iffy at 70.

We're stuck with these kind of stupid limits though whilst skilled engineers become scarcer and scarcer and automatons fresh out of university who only know how to quote a design manual but have no idea what it really means take over.

I understand this. But how can we make objections that stick?? I feel many of these decisions are officer-led, and can't be overturned easily.

Of course you have to justify decisions you make, exactly the same as I do in my own job. But blanket, sweeping reductions seem to be the order of the day. Would people think twice if they knew the decisions were likely to be called into question??

[Berk]

I have just received this from the HE about widening the A500 in the Potteries from the A527 to A5271 to three lanes. You think great then read in "It is proposed the speed limit will be lowered from 70mph to 50mph, for safety and consistency with other parts of the route in urban areas"

Why, I know why it is to keep the environmentalists happy but when we all have hydrogen cars or electric ones in 30 years time will the limits be raised

It doesn't seem to mention environmental considerations.

If the choice is between something that can flow at 50 mph under a 50 mph limit and a two-laner with a 70 that only crawls, it's probably worth it.

Perhaps, yes. I've come to realise that nothing is as important as having a free-flowing journey. That means less delays/obstructions. Overall speed isn't that important (unless you're doing many miles, maybe).

[JF2309]

I have just received this from the HE about widening the A500 in the Potteries from the A527 to A5271 to three lanes. You think great then read in "It is proposed the speed limit will be lowered from 70mph to 50mph, for safety and consistency with other parts of the route in urban areas"

Why, I know why it is to keep the environmentalists happy but when we all have hydrogen cars or electric ones in 30 years time will the limits be raised

It doesn't seem to mention environmental considerations.

If the choice is between something that can flow at 50 mph under a 50 mph limit and a two-laner with a 70 that only crawls, it's probably worth it.

And Justifiably so. I drive this stretch twice a day, 5 days a week, and probably twice more at weekends. I've never clocked the distance between the two junctions, but it's less than a mile, it might even be closer to half a mile. Northbound as soon as one acceleration lane ends you can see the other emerging. It's busy now, and the weaving is horrible, with more traffic looking to get off when Etruria Valley road is built it would become a standstill. This is no more than a C/D lane.

Do you really think a city like Stoke and a road like the A500 has any environmental objectors? It's a heavily industrialised road as it is, the following things line the route from A527-J15 - JCB, A Scrap Yard, Wolstanton Retail Park, Etruria Vale which is what all this benefits, A DHL Warehouse, with adjoining chemical plant, the whole of Shelton and Stoke Town, the A50 along with Britannia Stadium, an Incinerator with and cluster of distribution warehouses and Campbell Road Industrial Estate.

This for what its worth is why it's going from 2 lane to 3.

[Duple]

I think this area would probably benefit from "smart motorway" treatment. Variable speed limits certainly would help the situation, you could probably calm the traffic down from the Talke roundabout when required. It drags at 50 at night between J15 and the MFI roundabout!

[brummie_rob]

I think this area would probably benefit from "smart motorway" treatment. Variable speed limits certainly would help the situation, you could probably calm the traffic down from the Talke roundabout when required. It drags at 50 at night between J15 and the MFI roundabout!

Yeah night speeds are much higher than during peak hours. The section affected is generally quite slow anyway and I do forget myself that the national speed limit applies from the MFI roundabout as things tend to travel quite slowly.

However my concern is why the works are not happening until 2020 and will take 18 months to complete (for what is as mentioned about 1/2 miles or less!).

[fras]

Can somebody explain to me why these limits on urban dual carriageways are always set at 50 mph. Why not 60 mph ? After all, 60 mph is the NSL for a single carriageway road for heavens sake !

The section under notice is also the subject of a proposal to build a new road east from the Wolstanton junction that originally just served the retail park. A lot of traffic comes down from Wolstanton and immediately leaves at the next junction north for Burslem and Tunstall.

[Bryn666]

Because there isn't a dual carriageway design speed in the current DMRB that results in a 60 limit is the only answer I can think of.

50, check. 70, check. Nothing inbetween.

The exception is the A282 which does have a 60 limit despite being purpose built when widened in the late 1980s. All the other dual carriageways with 60 limits are either ancient (e.g. A1) or subject to 'environmental' 60 (e.g. A556, which is very much designed for 70).

I should add I would much rather we had more dual carriageway 60s than 50s - the A666 in Bolton springs to mind.

[brummie_rob]

The section under notice is also the subject of a proposal to build a new road east from the Wolstanton junction that originally just served the retail park. A lot of traffic comes down from Wolstanton and immediately leaves at the next junction north for Burslem and Tunstall.

The irony being the new link road will start construction next year and be complete before this even begins in 2019! That includes building new roads, a new bridge over the railway and a second bridge over a canal.

[JF2309]

Just remembered that I started a thread about this a while back.


http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... 2c#p758408

[vlad]

Documents from the public information exhibition have now been uploaded here, near the bottom of the page. It doesn't really say anything we didn't already know, although the artist's impression of what the widened road will look like does worry me.

[jackal]

From the image (see here) it seems that the new lanes will be segregated from the A500 with hatching. This makes sense as the junctions are so close, but raises questions (e.g. will you still be able to access both junctions directly from the A500?) and enforcement (there's a reason why a physical barrier is usually used).

By the looks of it the double barrier arrangement in the central reservation will be retained. This contrasts with most recent widening schemes, which use a single concrete barrier (like this).

[brummie_rob]

18 months to construct this is a joke. The section isn't even 1/2 mile. Yes earthworks will need moving etc but it seems half the time will be spent landscaping.

[Bryn666]

It's an urban road so it's going to require SUDS, which means reconstructing drainage systems, relocating any statutory undertakes equipment that follows the road line, constructing the works presumably under limited hours because of adjoining urban areas too.

Yes it seems a long time but there's more to it than 'just widening'.

[fras]

The section from the A53 junction to the A52 junction where the road goes off and forms a by-pass around Biddulph is very heavily trafficked, so I can understand them wanting a speed limit, but this means in only a very short period of time the A500 has become almost all 50 mph. The only NSL bit left after these works will be the few miles up to the M6 at Jn 16, and the whole of the A50 through the Potteries was opened at 50 mph, (NSL after the A521 junction at Meir.

I can't help thinking that failure to invest in roads that facilitate movement in and around the Potteries has contributed to its drastic decline as these are now the only credible roads to use to get around, hence are choc-a-bloc most of the day.

[JF2309]

A lack of road infrastructure is Absolutley, 100% not the reason for Stokes industrial decline.

Infact, there has been a lot of investment in the last 10 years. A 50 limit for 5 miles on a busy road with junctions so close and tight together really isn't the end of the world.

Biddulph is 10 miles from the A500.

[Jeni]

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