IRL: why do they use the word 'YIELD' instead of 'GIVE WAY'??

[Gareth]

Did the DfT drop the need for a Stop sign to be authorised as they were implying they would?

I dread to think of the use of Stop signs as traffic calming. Hopefully the new Chapter 3 when it's written will tell all.

They'd be better than bumps or pinch points.

Oh, I second that. There seems to be more roads with bumps than not around here now. Many are horribly high too and jolt you no matter what speed you hit them at. Seem to be nowhere near as common in almost any other country you go to and where you do find them, they tend to be way more genteel.

[Chris Bertram]

Oh, I second that. There seems to be more roads with bumps than not around here now. Many are horribly high too and jolt you no matter what speed you hit them at. Seem to be nowhere near as common in almost any other country you go to and where you do find them, they tend to be way more genteel.

You've obviously never been to India, where the bumps are vicious. Mind you, not repairing the road is also used as a form of traffic calming over there.

[Gareth]

Good to see India keeping some British heritage.

[Lockwood]

I dread to think of the use of Stop signs as traffic calming. Hopefully the new Chapter 3 when it's written will tell all.

I'm having visions of some arrow straight roads with STOP signs every fifty yards and "twenty's plenty" under each one.

[James1]

First one we saw was about 1 mile from the Dun Laoghaire ferry terminal.

Interesting: seems that Dún Laoghaire may have a bit of a "thing" about Géill Slí signs! See here:
http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/documen ... Report.pdf

Most of county Waterford uses Géill Slí instead of yield despite not being in the Gaeltacht

[Was92now625]

I'll just have to fall back on the fact that the first time I came across the phrase 'give way' in the Highway Code etc.

...and give way to the evidence that the phrase is much more widely used.

I see that this thread has been "bumped" from 2017. In the intervening period, I cannot remember hearing the phrase "Give Way" outside the topic of road signs etc.

[bothar]

Most of county Waterford uses Géill Slí instead of yield despite not being in the Gaeltacht

Waterford has a Gaeltacht area, but it is not most of the county as you say.

The most distinctive thing about Waterford signage is these island STOP signs, which are relatively common there and almost known elsewhere. This one is slightly turned around.

[Vierwielen]

Most of county Waterford uses Géill Slí instead of yield despite not being in the Gaeltacht

Waterford has a Gaeltacht area, but it is not most of the county as you say.

The most distinctive thing about Waterford signage is these island STOP signs, which are relatively common there and almost known elsewhere. This one is slightly turned around.

I can see these being knocked over by huges HGVs.

[James1]

Most of county Waterford uses Géill Slí instead of yield despite not being in the Gaeltacht

Waterford has a Gaeltacht area, but it is not most of the county as you say.

The most distinctive thing about Waterford signage is these island STOP signs, which are relatively common there and almost known elsewhere. This one is slightly turned around.

True, although I've seen these in Cork as well. Another unique thing about signs in Waterford is that in the actual Gaeltacht they use "STAD" instead of "STOP". I think all Gaeltachts should do this.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.047062,- ... 384!8i8192

[Jim606]

It's worth mentioning that Noah Webster (the father of US spelling reform) proposed many more changes than the ones adopted by the American public. One of his ideas was to spell 'Give' as 'Giv' https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/537 ... %99t-catch

Noah Webster's unadopted spelling reform 'Give' as 'Giv'

Giv.JPG (8.96 KiB) Viewed 1003 times

Therefore, in theory, if Ireland had adopted US spellings, another alternative to 'Yield' could have been 'Giv Way' or even 'Yeeld'?

[KrisW]

True, although I've seen these in Cork as well. Another unique thing about signs in Waterford is that in the actual Gaeltacht they use "STAD" instead of "STOP". I think all Gaeltachts should do this.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.047062,- ... 384!8i8192

The official Traffic Signs Manual makes no provision for STAD as an alternative wording, but it does allow GÉILL SLÍ as an alternative to YIELD. ( https://assets.gov.ie/34716/1b6d65651bb ... e694bb.pdf ; Sections 5.2, 5.3).

While STAD is definitely an Irish word, so is STOP (the words are pronounced like “stodd” and “stup” respectively in the Munster dialect that I was taught and would be used in Waterford, although Ulster speakers would pronounce STAD more like “stadd”). STAD has the additional meaning of “stay” or “wait” that STOP doesn’t, but for most official uses they’re interchangeable (think of “halt” and “stop” in English). As the English word “Stop” is originally from the Latin stuppare (to block, or stop up), it’s reasonable to assume it entered Irish at the same time or earlier from the same source, rather than coming via English.

In fairness you could write anything except GO on a red octagonal sign and it would be understood to mean STOP, but STOP has the advantage of being universal. Actually, I think there may be an international regulation at work here, too.. I just looked up what the stop-signs say in Bulgaria (where the Cyrillic alphabet is used) and Greece and lo and behold both show the word “STOP”, in Latin letters.

[Chris Bertram]

In fairness you could write anything except GO on a red octagonal sign and it would be understood to mean STOP, but STOP has the advantage of being universal. Actually, I think there may be an international regulation at work here, too.. I just looked up what the stop-signs say in Bulgaria (where the Cyrillic alphabet is used) and Greece and lo and behold both show the word “STOP”, in Latin letters.

In Canada, you will find the signs in English, French (ARRÊT), Inuktitut, Cree, and various combinations of these. Arabic script may be used in the peninsula, sometimes with STOP as well. The Israeli sign uses a raised hand in white on the red background. Armenia has its own language word plus STOP, so does South Korea, Thailand similarly but may omit the English. Bangladesh seems to prefer a blank red octagon, while Mongolia uses its own language (in Cyrillic script, I think) only, and Laos has the Lao word in its own script which may be combined with STOP. But the common feature is indeed the use of a red octagon, and the point-down triangle is pretty universal for Give Way, Yield, Ildiwch or whatever it is called locally.

[KrisW]

A French colleague of mine used to cite that French as one of the examples of Canadian French being different for the sake of being different: the French language has a verb stopper that even l'Académie Française has no issue with (in its literal sense, at least): http://www.academie-francaise.fr/stopper

A little more reading reveals that “STOP” is from the Vienna Convention: countries are permitted to use either the national language, or the word STOP. On this side of the Atlantic, and at least as far as Russia, STOP alone appears to be universal. In the Americas, the local languages are preferred: PARE and ALTO for Portuguese and Spanish-speaking countries, and the ARRÊT in French Canada plus First Nations languages, and then there’s cases where two languages are used, but as I said, a red octagon with white writing, regardless of what it is, means "stop!". Except where it doesn't.

That one exception is Japan, which uses a triangular sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_sign ... _330-A.svg (a previous version didn’t even say "STOP" and had only the Japanese text). The Japanese stop-sign was something I used to use as an example when I taught software developers about internationalization (another was that it's wrong to assume that the meaning of up/down on a light-switches is universal)

[Chris Bertram]

(another was that it's wrong to assume that the meaning of up/down on a light-switches is universal)

... or even reliable on the same switch. We have landings where you can switch the light on or off from downstairs or at the landing level itself. This means that the switches can reverse position for On or Off depending on the position of the other switch. Actually, I'm sitting at a desk where I have a pull-cord for the room light, plus there is a conventional switch by the door. Again, pulling the cord will reverse the function of the switch positions.

[trickstat]

(another was that it's wrong to assume that the meaning of up/down on a light-switches is universal)

... or even reliable on the same switch. We have landings where you can switch the light on or off from downstairs or at the landing level itself. This means that the switches can reverse position for On or Off depending on the position of the other switch. Actually, I'm sitting at a desk where I have a pull-cord for the room light, plus there is a conventional switch by the door. Again, pulling the cord will reverse the function of the switch positions.

I'm in a first floor maisonette and have 2 switches for the light inside my front door and the landing. I've just checked and it looks as though if both switches for a light have the same position it is off but if they are different it is on.

[James1]

True, although I've seen these in Cork as well. Another unique thing about signs in Waterford is that in the actual Gaeltacht they use "STAD" instead of "STOP". I think all Gaeltachts should do this.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.047062,- ... 384!8i8192

The official Traffic Signs Manual makes no provision for STAD as an alternative wording, but it does allow GÉILL SLÍ as an alternative to YIELD. ( https://assets.gov.ie/34716/1b6d65651bb ... e694bb.pdf ; Sections 5.2, 5.3).

While STAD is definitely an Irish word, so is STOP (the words are pronounced like “stodd” and “stup” respectively in the Munster dialect that I was taught and would be used in Waterford, although Ulster speakers would pronounce STAD more like “stadd”). STAD has the additional meaning of “stay” or “wait” that STOP doesn’t, but for most official uses they’re interchangeable (think of “halt” and “stop” in English). As the English word “Stop” is originally from the Latin stuppare (to block, or stop up), it’s reasonable to assume it entered Irish at the same time or earlier from the same source, rather than coming via English.

In fairness you could write anything except GO on a red octagonal sign and it would be understood to mean STOP, but STOP has the advantage of being universal. Actually, I think there may be an international regulation at work here, too.. I just looked up what the stop-signs say in Bulgaria (where the Cyrillic alphabet is used) and Greece and lo and behold both show the word “STOP”, in Latin letters.

I think they should make a provision to allow STAD as an option similar to GÉILL SLÍ for YIELD. It would make no difference to safety as you say, with the red octagon more or less universal and probably have no practical benefits either. It would be purely to make the Irish language more visible in Gaeltacht areas and to help differentiate them which is badly needed in my opinion, especially as more and more Yield signs are replaced with stop signs in Ireland. It would be a cheap easy way for the government to try and show they care some bit about the language and if people really aren't happy a nice compromise would be to have the sign saying STAD and then STOP painted on the road or vice versa.

[RichardA626]

Turkey uses DUR for their octagonal signs.

Spain uses STOP rather than ALTO which is used in Mexico & probably most other Latin American countries.

[James1]

Turkey uses DUR for their octagonal signs.

Spain uses STOP rather than ALTO which is used in Mexico & probably most other Latin American countries.

Some Latin American countries use Pare aswell

[KrisW]

True, although I've seen these in Cork as well. Another unique thing about signs in Waterford is that in the actual Gaeltacht they use "STAD" instead of "STOP". I think all Gaeltachts should do this.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.047062,- ... 384!8i8192

The official Traffic Signs Manual makes no provision for STAD as an alternative wording, but it does allow GÉILL SLÍ as an alternative to YIELD. ( https://assets.gov.ie/34716/1b6d65651bb ... e694bb.pdf ; Sections 5.2, 5.3).

While STAD is definitely an Irish word, so is STOP (the words are pronounced like “stodd” and “stup” respectively in the Munster dialect that I was taught and would be used in Waterford, although Ulster speakers would pronounce STAD more like “stadd”). STAD has the additional meaning of “stay” or “wait” that STOP doesn’t, but for most official uses they’re interchangeable (think of “halt” and “stop” in English). As the English word “Stop” is originally from the Latin stuppare (to block, or stop up), it’s reasonable to assume it entered Irish at the same time or earlier from the same source, rather than coming via English.

In fairness you could write anything except GO on a red octagonal sign and it would be understood to mean STOP, but STOP has the advantage of being universal. Actually, I think there may be an international regulation at work here, too.. I just looked up what the stop-signs say in Bulgaria (where the Cyrillic alphabet is used) and Greece and lo and behold both show the word “STOP”, in Latin letters.

I think they should make a provision to allow STAD as an option similar to GÉILL SLÍ for YIELD. It would make no difference to safety as you say, with the red octagon more or less universal and probably have no practical benefits either. It would be purely to make the Irish language more visible in Gaeltacht areas and to help differentiate them which is badly needed in my opinion, especially as more and more Yield signs are replaced with stop signs in Ireland. It would be a cheap easy way for the government to try and show they care some bit about the language and if people really aren't happy a nice compromise would be to have the sign saying STAD and then STOP painted on the road or vice versa.

As "STOP" is already an Irish word, and one with a long history, I don't see the point of reducing the recognisability of the most important traffic-control sign, even if it's only a marginal reduction, just to make sure the "English" word isn't seen.

A traffic sign exists to convey information, and the less that gets in the way of that, the better.

Also, as a counter-argument, look at how direction signage works when a place has the same name in both Irish and English: the styling used for the Irish language is used, not the one for English (e.g., "Wilton" is signed in mixed-case italic on the N40 in Cork, just as an Irish-named place like Dún Laoighaire would be). So... are you so sure that the word you see on the stop-sign is even in English...?

[James1]

As "STOP" is already an Irish word, and one with a long history, I don't see the point of reducing the recognisability of the most important traffic-control sign, even if it's only a marginal reduction, just to make sure the "English" word isn't seen.

A traffic sign exists to convey information, and the less that gets in the way of that, the better.

Also, as a counter-argument, look at how direction signage works when a place has the same name in both Irish and English: the styling used for the Irish language is used, not the one for English (e.g., "Wilton" is signed in mixed-case italic on the N40 in Cork, just as an Irish-named place like Dún Laoighaire would be). So... are you so sure that the word you see on the stop-sign is even in English...?

I was just in the the Waterford Gaeltacht once, noticed they used STAD instead of STOP and personally thought it was a nice idea that could be expanded. I disagree that there is even a marginal reduction in safety, even at a junction with no sign at all people will normally stop or at least yield.

For a start I think the direction signs should abandon the stupid italics (if the goal is truly conveying information as you say). Signs like Wilton and Port Laoise should be in all caps like normal and at the very least Gaeltacht areas should flip Irish and English priority as they seem to be doing in parts of Kerry https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.2123349, ... 384!8i8192 ...but I'll digress. If the stop sign truly was in Irish I suppose it would be in italics wouldn't it?