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Chris5156 wrote: If it gets detrunked and reverts to Devon CC, then HE will have no say over what happens to it or what standard any work is carried out to.
At least a third of that length is in Somerset. Schemes across boundaries always seem to be far more administratively complex, as each tries to pass cost to the other, than schemes within single control.
If I was Somerset CC, and looking at the mess-up across my area that the A358 scheme might bring, I would refuse to take the section from HE until they dualled it
The one thing I noticed as a fairly regular user of both roads, is that almost all the traffic flows from the A303 onto the A358, on which vehicles are then nose-to-tail all the way to Taunton. Heaven help anybody who wishes to turn from a side road onto the A358.
If you carry straight on along the A303, the traffic miraculously disappears.
In all these arguments about whether the A303 or the A358 should be dualled, are we forgetting that the A358 isn't (or wouldn't when upgraded) just used by east west traffic and that it is also an important north south route for traffic going to Bristol and beyond from Dorset and South Somerset?
Given the quality of the A37 and lack of a decent southern ring road around Bristol the A358-M5 is the best route from these areas to Bristol and the Midlands. Upgrading the A358 will greatly improve things for this traffic as well. Many a time I have got stuck behind HGVS on the A358 when heading for the motorway, as overtaking opportunities are rare.
However much we might complain about the A358 as an S2, don't forget just how bad it used to be. If you don't remember, look at the old alignments between Horton Cross and Ashill or the road through Hatch Beauchamp to see what I mean!
Richardf wrote:are we forgetting that the A358 isn't (or wouldn't when upgraded) just used by east west traffic and that it is also an important north south route for traffic going to Bristol and beyond from Dorset and South Somerset?
I actually covered that a short while back.
It's always reminded me of the A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge, a road which has two feeders at right angles at both ends, A1 to M11 north-south, and A14 east-west, along with a substantial local flow between two local major nodes. That inevitably makes it a busy route.
TimM3-A55 wrote:
Do we know that the Blackdown Hills section will remain a trunk road once the A358 scheme is done? If it gets detrunked and reverts to Devon CC, then HE will have no say over what happens to it or what standard any work is carried out to.
I'm certainly expecting it to be detrunked. I thought the whole point was that the A303/A30 between Southfields and Honiton will be detrunked and will remain single carriageway.
Richardf wrote:are we forgetting that the A358 isn't (or wouldn't when upgraded) just used by east west traffic and that it is also an important north south route for traffic going to Bristol and beyond from Dorset and South Somerset?
I actually covered that a short while back.
It's always reminded me of the A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge, a road which has two feeders at right angles at both ends, A1 to M11 north-south, and A14 east-west, along with a substantial local flow between two local major nodes. That inevitably makes it a busy route.
Sorry. Everyone was getting so worked up over the E-W axis, it felt the equally important N-S axis was being overlooked.
The single option from the previous consultation (the only one with a new roundabout at the M5):
The three shortlisted options that didn't make it to the previous consultation:
I fancy option 2 will be a strong candidate. It's the most online of the options, the only one with a direct GSJ with the A378, a direct route to Taunton is maintained, and it freeflows onto the M5S.
There's also something to be said for option 1 (specifically, that its full freeflow interchange with the M5 would give most relief to J25) but environmental considerations probably tell against it.
This is how I would improve Southfields. The A358 to the south has some realignment, involving the creation of a Donyatt Bypass (not sure if one is needed, but it is logical to include it). The roundabout is extended northwards and the services are demolished. The two sections of the A358 meet at a roundabout further north. The A303 flies over the top of the new Southfields roundabout.
"All roads lead to Rome" What about the M25?
The A205 - The road to... oh wait I should've turned right back there!
jackal wrote:
There's also something to be said for option 1 (specifically, that its full freeflow interchange with the M5 would give most relief to J25) but environmental considerations probably tell against it.
The problem with that option is then that traffic for Taunton will either use the M5 for the short distance between the junctions, or will go through Henlade. I can't see anything which leaves significant traffic going through Henlade being politically acceptable.
Option 2 is by far the most sensible, and had the highest BCR, and was only £20-30m more for considerably more benefit
Yes, I see the disadvantages with option 1. But the thing is J25 is a nightmare and a massive constraint on growth in Taunton and the SW more generally. I'm not convinced that taking A358E<->M5S traffic alone off the junction a la option 2 is a long term solution. As the traffic counts show, these are relatively light movements.
Option 1 would take three times as much traffic off J25, and freeflow the north-south movement from the A37 etc, which is worth at least considering. That is assuming traffic can be deterred from continuing through Henlade, which shouldn't be hard.
The significant amount of traffic arriving at J25 heads straight into Taunton... so maybe a stackabout would have been ideal here... I am aware that is tantamount to swearing in many road afficionados opinions though!
As an ex-local, but with no real expertise in the field....
The A358 from the A303 needs to be taken off the main J25 roundabout. That's already badly congested and improvements to the A303 would just make this an awful bottleneck.
The A358 from Taunton mostly joins M5 North. The reason for this is that traffic for M5 South tends to head along the A38 and use the much quieter J26 instead.
Herned wrote:The significant amount of traffic arriving at J25 heads straight into Taunton... so maybe a stackabout would have been ideal here... I am aware that is tantamount to swearing in many road afficionados opinions though!
Tbh it would be a good idea, but unlikely given the A358 into Taunton isn't seen as HE's problem.
MotorwayPlannerM21 wrote:This is how I would improve Southfields. The A358 to the south has some realignment, involving the creation of a Donyatt Bypass (not sure if one is needed, but it is logical to include it). The roundabout is extended northwards and the services are demolished. The two sections of the A358 meet at a roundabout further north. The A303 flies over the top of the new Southfields roundabout.
Why does Horton Cross / Southfields need a flyover since the freeflow will (should) take the vast majority of traffic away on your little shortcut freeflow?
MotorwayPlannerM21 wrote:This is how I would improve Southfields. The A358 to the south has some realignment, involving the creation of a Donyatt Bypass (not sure if one is needed, but it is logical to include it). The roundabout is extended northwards and the services are demolished. The two sections of the A358 meet at a roundabout further north. The A303 flies over the top of the new Southfields roundabout.
Why does Horton Cross / Southfields need a flyover since the freeflow will (should) take the vast majority of traffic away on your little shortcut freeflow?
To support further upgrade on the A303 west of here, as this is a more direct route, and would separate Taunton and Exeter bound traffic.
I'd rather have a flyover in the present than to redesign the junction and then need one in the future but not have enough space.
"All roads lead to Rome" What about the M25?
The A205 - The road to... oh wait I should've turned right back there!
Surely only one route or the other needs upgrading to HQDC not both. If you did one it would take most of the traffic, so the other would only need more moderate improvement for the traffic that has to use it.
Richardf wrote:Surely only one route or the other needs upgrading to HQDC not both. If you did one it would take most of the traffic, so the other would only need more moderate improvement for the traffic that has to use it.
Well this is just my ideal scenario.
Anyway, surely 2 high quality routes going to separate places are better than one taking 2 times the traffic and making traffic take a detour.
It's not like everyone on the M20 (from before J3) has to go to J1 to reach the M25.
"All roads lead to Rome" What about the M25?
The A205 - The road to... oh wait I should've turned right back there!
I really don't get people's obsession with a HQDC for the Blackdown Hills route. It's only slightly shorter (30 miles vs 38 miles via the A358 to M5 J29) but critically it serves absolutely nowhere. Why completely disregard Taunton, the whole of west Somerset and north Devon and the north-south traffic that uses the A358 just so Honiton can have a better link east? Don't get me wrong, I do think the A303 there needs upgrading but a new S2+1 road will be more than ample. Only the A358 needs dualling.
DavidBrown wrote:I really don't get people's obsession with a HQDC for the Blackdown Hills route. It's only slightly shorter (30 miles vs 38 miles via the A358 to M5 J29) but critically it serves absolutely nowhere. Why completely disregard Taunton, the whole of west Somerset and north Devon and the north-south traffic that uses the A358 just so Honiton can have a better link east? Don't get me wrong, I do think the A303 there needs upgrading but a new S2+1 road will be more than ample. Only the A358 needs dualling.
