A358 Taunton to Southfields

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SteveA30
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by SteveA30 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 21:39

I meant the queues to the rbt. Its not clear if Henlade will still be a through road or not. Hope so.
Last edited by SteveA30 on Sat Jun 29, 2019 22:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf » Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:43

SteveA30 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 21:39
I meant the queues to the rbt. Its not clear if Henlade will still be a through route or not. Hope so.
Why? It doesn't need to be once it's bypassed.
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Berk
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Berk » Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:47

Richardf wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:43
SteveA30 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 21:39
I meant the queues to the rbt. Its not clear if Henlade will still be a through route or not. Hope so.
Why? It doesn't need to be once it's bypassed.
It doesn’t mean local traffic doesn’t need to leave or enter the village.

Block it off, and they’ll be forced to use the bypass, adding local traffic back to a trunk route.

That said, I don’t feel drivers will embrace this as a trunk route - except possibly HGV drivers - for all the reasons mentioned.

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Berk » Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:51

Herned wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 14:21
Norfolktolancashire wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 13:02
As a regular traveller past and into Taunton I have wondered this lack of a "west Taunton junction. With all the residential development around the town over the recent years the one junction is heavily overloaded.
Jct 26 is very useful for heading west for a lot of the town and is signed on the M5 for Taunton. And you can use the back road to the services as an unofficial junction, or so I've been told
Indeed, but some po-faced members frown on that sort of thing.

In any case, Taunton should really have a second (or make it third) junction, with an A-class road leading to it. I can’t help feeling the chosen route is due to some people leaving negative feedback and questioning the need for a western junction in the consultation.

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf » Sat Jun 29, 2019 20:18

Local traffic would be able to access Taunton via Ruishton and Creech St Michael to the A38. The park and ride would still need access to J 25 so the cut would be made between there and the Rushton turn in Henlade.

Where would you put another junction. Would need to be on an existing road crossing, so either the B3170 at Orchard Portman or the Trull road near the services. Either road would need upgrading and improving to cope with the extra traffic. Either that or a LAR bypass built around Taunton so you can put a junction where you like!
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned » Sat Jun 29, 2019 21:28

The sensible place for any new junction for Taunton would be to the east, where the A361 crosses. It could only need east-facing slips. That would take a decent amount of pressure off j25 and has been suggested officially by the local authorities.

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Keiji » Sun Jun 30, 2019 08:36

Berk wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:51
Herned wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 14:21
Norfolktolancashire wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 13:02
As a regular traveller past and into Taunton I have wondered this lack of a "west Taunton junction. With all the residential development around the town over the recent years the one junction is heavily overloaded.
Jct 26 is very useful for heading west for a lot of the town and is signed on the M5 for Taunton. And you can use the back road to the services as an unofficial junction, or so I've been told
Indeed, but some po-faced members frown on that sort of thing.
From Google satellite view it looks like the access roads to both NB & SB services are gated anyway, so probably not possible.

I was a little disappointed at first to hear the chosen scheme won't have free-flow access to the M5, but actually it does make some sense. This isn't really a scheme to improve the driving experience of long-distance drivers, it's more a scheme to improve the quality of life for local residents and commuters, and people accessing Taunton itself, so the chosen option concentrates the nasty part at J25, whereas any option to provide free-flow to the M5 would necessarily involve additional junctions with more land take, and any option that only provides access to one direction on the M5 means the other direction still needs to use the existing route.

Capacity wise the existing single carriageway has been fine every time I've used it, yes it's a bit of a drag having to go slightly under your preferred speed due to sitting in a long line of vehicles, but I've never noticed it slow to a crawl and I do use it in preference to Blackdown Hills regardless. Since traffic splits between the two routes here there really isn't that much demand on J25 in terms of capacity. Yes there will be a bit more traffic when it's dualled but I can't see it being so much more that it'd cause intolerable congestion.

The only thing that would really cause J25 to become an issue is overall traffic growth and with all the efforts to encourage sustainable transport no government wants to encourage that. So not providing fully convenient junctions is a "stick" for that end. What they still not providing yet is the "carrot", i.e. let's get on and finish HS2 already then have another one from London and Reading to Bristol, Cardiff and Exeter please? :D

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by roadtester » Sun Jun 30, 2019 09:29

Keiji wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 08:36
This isn't really a scheme to improve the driving experience of long-distance drivers, it's more a scheme to improve the quality of life for local residents and commuters, and people accessing Taunton itself...
Is that really the case?

I thought the point of this was to substitute for more extensive dualling of the A303 as part of a high-quality corridor to the southwest.

Although of course it has to do the local job as well.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by A320Driver » Sun Jun 30, 2019 09:49

And it could quite easily do both, provided free flow links are provided from A303E-A358-M5S.

Three bridges are all that’s needed.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:40

Keiji wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 08:36
Capacity wise the existing single carriageway has been fine every time I've used it, yes it's a bit of a drag having to go slightly under your preferred speed due to sitting in a long line of vehicles, but I've never noticed it slow to a crawl and I do use it in preference to Blackdown Hills regardless. Since traffic splits between the two routes here there really isn't that much demand on J25 in terms of capacity. Yes there will be a bit more traffic when it's dualled but I can't see it being so much more that it'd cause intolerable congestion.
The route right now carries 31k vpd through Henlade, every morning the queues to junction 25 are several miles long, and they often last through the day. The consultation report shows j25 is at capacity now, and will still be after the £20m scheme to add another roundabout is finished. Their own modelling shows the roundabout will be overloaded, and will cause queuing back onto the M5. Essentially the scheme has been built down to a price, I only hope they are safeguarding the land to build the free flow link later.

And yes you can use the services as an unofficial junction

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf » Sun Jun 30, 2019 15:29

The A358 is not only a link between the A303 and the M5 it is also a route from the South coast towards Bristol and the midlands. While not ideal it is a great deal better than the alternative, the A37. Dualin or even widening to include climbing lanes would be an improvement. Often use the road to get from Dorset to the M5 and its a regular experience to get stuck behind HGVs and not be able to over take.

To say that this project is limited in benefit as an A303 replacement route is nonsense.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Berk » Sun Jun 30, 2019 15:32

Well, up to a point. I agree it will still be worth continuing with the project. But it won’t provide much relief for the A303 itself, just as a better alternative route (e.g. when the Blackdowns are closed), or in worse (typically winter) weather.

It will still be longer to get to Exeter, as people have pointed out. But if more people with campervans use the A358, it might ease congestion quite a bit. If someone in the future can promote and build a new junction and link road from Trull to West Hatch, then it may not have been in vain.

But dualling the A358 was also sold as being a replacement route instead of doing the A303. The implication being the A303 would not be improved, unless councils like Devon can develop schemes of their own. Which they are fortunately trying to do.

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by tompatt » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:57

Berk wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 15:32
Well, up to a point. I agree it will still be worth continuing with the project. But it won’t provide much relief for the A303 itself, just as a better alternative route (e.g. when the Blackdowns are closed), or in worse (typically winter) weather.

It will still be longer to get to Exeter, as people have pointed out. But if more people with campervans use the A358, it might ease congestion quite a bit. If someone in the future can promote and build a new junction and link road from Trull to West Hatch, then it may not have been in vain.

But dualling the A358 was also sold as being a replacement route instead of doing the A303. The implication being the A303 would not be improved, unless councils like Devon can develop schemes of their own. Which they are fortunately trying to do.
Always felt the A358 was a fudge and that the better option would be to connect to improve the A30/303 from Horton X to Honiton, wouldn't this extremely expensive though and I didn't think that trunk road improvement was part of local authority remit?

My preference is always M4/M5, if' I've got to drive to Taunton I might as well continue on to Bristol.

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by roadtester » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:07

On the question of whether this is just a scheme to solve local problems or part of a grand vision to provide the missing link for the A303 as a high quality route to the southwest, I notice that the Highways Agency page for the Sparkford to Ilchester improvement (I was prompted to look at this because it is referred to in the UK road building costs thread) refers to the A303/A358 corridor, and the need to upgrade it, so this is clearly a thing.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... ilchester/

If that's the role A358 Taunton to Southfields is supposed to play, it really shouldn't be skimped on.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:27

tompatt wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:57
Always felt the A358 was a fudge and that the better option would be to connect to improve the A30/303 from Horton X to Honiton, wouldn't this extremely expensive though and I didn't think that trunk road improvement was part of local authority remit?

My preference is always M4/M5, if' I've got to drive to Taunton I might as well continue on to Bristol.
Bear in mind that it is much much busier than the A303, the top end is used by around 31k vehicles per day. It needs dualling and Henlade needs bypassing on it's own merits

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf » Thu Jul 04, 2019 18:37

M4/M5 route might be an option for those based between there and the A303, but it's not an option for those of us south of the A303.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by tompatt » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:10

Richardf wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 18:37
M4/M5 route might be an option for those based between there and the A303, but it's not an option for those of us south of the A303.
Depends how much you enjoy staring at the back of a tractor through the Blackdowns :D

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:27

tompatt wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:10
Richardf wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 18:37
M4/M5 route might be an option for those based between there and the A303, but it's not an option for those of us south of the A303.
Depends how much you enjoy staring at the back of a tractor through the Blackdowns :D
True but if you lived south of the A303 would you head for the M4 to get to the west country? I'd personally go A303/A358! Or even A35 depending on where I was heading for.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by JonH » Mon Jul 08, 2019 13:34

roadtester wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:07
On the question of whether this is just a scheme to solve local problems or part of a grand vision to provide the missing link for the A303 as a high quality route to the southwest, I notice that the Highways Agency page for the Sparkford to Ilchester improvement (I was prompted to look at this because it is referred to in the UK road building costs thread) refers to the A303/A358 corridor, and the need to upgrade it, so this is clearly a thing.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... ilchester/

If that's the role A358 Taunton to Southfields is supposed to play, it really shouldn't be skimped on.
That Sparkford to Ilchester bit is yet another "get on and chuffing build it" Who ever permitted the bit where the dual A303 hits the roundabout and exits as a single lane road with no hint or warning or a merge (Hazelgrove Roundabout), is yet another person I would like to cause severe pain to... :evil:

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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Berk » Mon Jul 08, 2019 16:13

To be fair, it is moving in that direction. And is one of the cheapest schemes to build, so there’s no reason to think it won’t be.

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