A358 Taunton to Southfields

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multiraider2
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by multiraider2 »

WHBM wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 09:14
Has there ever been such a dog-leg reroute anywhere else that has succeeded ?
It's desire paths again. If they ever manage to fix the rest including Stonehenge before I'm gone or stopped driving, I'll also be carrying on to the Blackdown Hills.
Herned
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned »

WHBM wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 09:14 Has there ever been such a dog-leg reroute anywhere else that has succeeded ?
Not a reroute as such, but the M4-M5 route is 25 miles further London-Exeter and a lot of the traffic goes that way. Also more locally, Exeter to Barnstaple is signed via J27 and the NDLR since it opened, which is much further than the direct route
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by SteveA30 »

Plenty of viewers at the consultation at Monks Yard. Queueing outside and much discussion taking place, When I mentioned the earlier option of a freeflow M5 junction south of J25, none of the staff knew about it. My only suggestion for the plan for J25 itself was an SLT from A358 to M5 s/bnd for the A303ers, which they are trying to attract. I was surprised that the old D2 towards Henlade is retained instead of being singled. This will become a rat run if summer tailbacks are as long as they are now or worse, with A303 traffic added. There is an SLT on to the A303 for e/bnd traffic at Southfields, rather too sharp I thou
Last edited by SteveA30 on Mon Oct 25, 2021 07:01, edited 4 times in total.
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Vierwielen
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Vierwielen »

multiraider2 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 09:42
WHBM wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 09:14
Has there ever been such a dog-leg reroute anywhere else that has succeeded ?
It's desire paths again. If they ever manage to fix the rest including Stonehenge before I'm gone or stopped driving, I'll also be carrying on to the Blackdown Hills.
I did a check on viaMichelin for the route Hammersmith to Exeter for three routes -

1) M4, M5
2) A30, M3, A303, A30
3) A30, M3, A303, A358, M5

The results acroiss all three routes were:
Cost: Varied between €28.25 and €29.14
Time: Varied between 3h21 and 3h28
Distance: Varied between 268 km and 308 km
In all cases, the A303 direct route was the fastest, cheapest and shortest while the M5 route the slowest, most expensive and longest.

Thus apart from distance travelled, there was only 7 minutes between the three routes. The real difference is the time taken to get through the Balackdown Hills - get stuck behind a tractor and what was the quickest route becomes the slowest route
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jackal
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by jackal »

The BBC are giving the views of the chair of Ashill Parish Council an airing:
Under the proposals for the dualling, up to 18 existing junctions between the A358 and smaller roads leading to local villages will be removed, the Local Democracy Reporting Service said.

Mr Lang said this would lead to Ashill - which is one of the few villages to keep a direct connection to the A358 - becoming a rat run for commuters.

He said: "Traffic travelling to and from Ilminster, Ilton, Chard, the south coast or the A303 from Hatch Beauchamp, Curry Mallet, Bickenhall, Curland, Staple Fitzpaine, Windmill Hill and Wood Road will find the route through Ashill the most convenient."
This list is just bizarre. Traffic to/from Ilminster, Chard or the South Coast would not use the Ashill junction at all. Most of the rest are hamlets that could hardly expect their own GSJs, Windmill Hill is actually part of Ashill, and traffic for Ilton or Curry Mallet would head north from the junction, not touching Ashill village. The one 'big' place is Hatch Beauchamp, population 620, which would also be accessed from the next GSJ along. Is 1 and half villages sharing a GSJ really that big a deal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-60053709
Herned
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned »

That's nuts. As a local I know all of those teeming metropolises... the streets of Ashill will be chaos for ever more

Why is this a story today though? I can't see any update on the National England Agency for Highways website
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by AAndy »

cutting off your nose ....seems to be the thing. I often turn off the A358 and drive though Ashill.... & then though Broadway to reach the A303 west

I used to drive though Ashill before it was bypassed... thats when it was busy!
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Richardf »

In my view this is a good thing. So often decent schemes are ruined by too many minor junctions, resulting in local traffic and often inappropriate vehicles doing short hops along a road designed for long distance traffic.

Fewer junctions providing connectivity to the road for a wider area, linked maybe by the old road or new links should keep such traffic off the long distance route , improving capacity, speeds and safety for the users its designed for.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by stu531 »

Dan Lockton wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:38
I wonder whether the A303 (and A30) between the A358 and Honiton would remain primary, or not? Or even renumbering the A358 to A303?
(oh, the image didn't work: here's a link http://danlockton.co.uk/images/A30-A303-v4.jpg )
That is a good map. Taking the idea a further step, why not run the A30 along the A3088 at Cartgate, so that the whole of the A303 west of there, and A358 to the M5, becomes A30? That was the dual section 'scoops up' A303 and A30 traffic. That would mean a renumbering of the A30 between Yeovil and Honiton, and the short stretch of A303 between the Southfields Roundabout south-west to the A30.

I'd suggest taking the A375 from Sidmouth to the Southfields Roundabout at Ilminster, and taking the A359 from its existing terminus at Yeovil and running it down the existing A30 to Upottery, to connect with this new A375.

A fair bit of renumbering, but not as much as removing the whole of the A303, whilst reducing the significance of both the old A30 west of Yeovil and the old A303 route west of Ilminster.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Peter Freeman »

Vierwielen wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 21:26 The results across all three routes were:
Cost: Varied between €28.25 and €29.14 (+3.2%)
Time: Varied between 3h21 and 3h28 (+3.5%)
Distance: Varied between 268 km and 308 km (+14.9%)
In all cases, the A303 direct route was the fastest, cheapest and shortest while the M5 route the slowest, most expensive and longest.
Other factors to consider:
  • Safety (driver, passengers and others)
    Driver and passenger fatigue
    Vehicle wear-and-tear
    Road maintenance costs
    Local amenity disturbance
    Air and noise pollution
    Journey duration predictability
    Scenic enjoyment
I think several of these might favour the motorway route.

A retrospective consideration:
  • The high capital cost of investments in an almost parallel route. The M4 and M5 could have been improved instead. Too late now: A303 duplication almost finished.
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by MikeB55 »

stu531's renumbering proposal doesn't say what he'd do about the A30 from Honiton to Exeter. A35 seems the obvious choice.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Chris5156 »

Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:10
Vierwielen wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 21:26 The results across all three routes were:
Cost: Varied between €28.25 and €29.14 (+3.2%)
Time: Varied between 3h21 and 3h28 (+3.5%)
Distance: Varied between 268 km and 308 km (+14.9%)
In all cases, the A303 direct route was the fastest, cheapest and shortest while the M5 route the slowest, most expensive and longest.
Other factors to consider:
  • Safety (driver, passengers and others)
    Driver and passenger fatigue
    Vehicle wear-and-tear
    Road maintenance costs
    Local amenity disturbance
    Air and noise pollution
    Journey duration predictability
    Scenic enjoyment
I think several of these might favour the motorway route.

A retrospective consideration:
  • The high capital cost of investments in an almost parallel route. The M4 and M5 could have been improved instead. Too late now: A303 duplication almost finished.
One key factor that's not on your list is the value of improved communications to the places the A303 runs near to. Improving the M4 and M5 would do nothing for Salisbury, Yeovil, Ilminster, etc. It's not solely a question of how to make the fastest route between the M25 and Exeter.
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jackal
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by jackal »

In fact M25 to Exeter journeys are only a small part of A303 traffic, as can be seen from the drastic swings in volumes, e.g.:

40k off the M3
60k east of Andover
20k Mere
40k Stoke-sub-Hamdon
15k Blackdown Hills
Herned
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned »

Even more consultation on this route, starting from 24 May. Will it ever be more than pretty diagrams?
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Phil »

Herned wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:44 Even more consultation on this route, starting from 24 May. Will it ever be more than pretty diagrams?
If it results in a better junction with the M5 it will be worth it.

Not holding my breath though....
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Phil »

stu531 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 00:03
Dan Lockton wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:38
I wonder whether the A303 (and A30) between the A358 and Honiton would remain primary, or not? Or even renumbering the A358 to A303?
(oh, the image didn't work: here's a link http://danlockton.co.uk/images/A30-A303-v4.jpg )
That is a good map. Taking the idea a further step, why not run the A30 along the A3088 at Cartgate, so that the whole of the A303 west of there, and A358 to the M5, becomes A30? That was the dual section 'scoops up' A303 and A30 traffic. That would mean a renumbering of the A30 between Yeovil and Honiton, and the short stretch of A303 between the Southfields Roundabout south-west to the A30.

I'd suggest taking the A375 from Sidmouth to the Southfields Roundabout at Ilminster, and taking the A359 from its existing terminus at Yeovil and running it down the existing A30 to Upottery, to connect with this new A375.

A fair bit of renumbering, but not as much as removing the whole of the A303, whilst reducing the significance of both the old A30 west of Yeovil and the old A303 route west of Ilminster.
Renumbering roads costs money - the more tinkering you do the more the cost goes up.

Also with anything which is not currently a National Highways maintained route, the costs will fall on cash strapped local authorities who have better things to spend money on than replacing / patching road signs.

As such the only change I would ever expect is the re-routing of the A303 to Taunton and giving the rump that goes onto the A30 a new number (plus the removal of primary status from there to Honiton)
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by jackal »

The alterations include:

changes to access arrangements at Nexus 25 and Mattock’s Tree Green junctions;
updates to proposals for walker, cyclist, horse-rider and disabled user access;
a number of new areas identified as suitable for habitat creation;
a change in location for the main construction compound.
https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk ... r-upgrade/
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by A320Driver »

Tinkering round the edges. After all, we often see horses riding along the A358 don’t we! Maybe NH should spend less money on pointless consultations, and more on providing decent junctions at the end of the new road.
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by Herned »

Phil wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 22:03 If it results in a better junction with the M5 it will be worth it.

Not holding my breath though....
Just as well... as Jackal has already listed, it's minor tinkering at best. People are doomed to have to use two roundabouts to get from one road to the other until there is a serious reappraisal of how we choose to join major roads together :bang: :pig:
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Re: A358 Taunton to Southfields

Post by jackal »

Well, it's conceivable that "changes to access arrangements at Nexus 25" means a substantive improvement, e.g., a bridge to replace the recently constructed roundabout, though it's admittedly unlikely.
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