M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

[A303Chris]

Is this to tie-in the two Smart Motorway schemes?
This will make the 50mph section around twenty miles long

M4 is currently at 50mph for smartification works between before J12 to after J7 which is 19 miles shortly being extended to J4B, so 27 miles!!!

[Big L]

There have been other 20-odd mile sections before. M6 16-19 was, the M1 S Yorks/N Notts section, I'm sure the M1 19-Northampton bit can't have been far off.

[owen b]

There have been other 20-odd mile sections before. M6 16-19 was, the M1 S Yorks/N Notts section, I'm sure the M1 19-Northampton bit can't have been far off.

M1 J16-19 is about 15 miles, but J13-15 is currently being upgraded which is about 18 miles and no doubt J15-16 will be added before too long which is another 6 miles, although the HE page says that "drivers will not experience 38km of roadworks during construction" https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/

[brummie_rob]

I think it is to tie in both schemes certainly to make the concrete barrier continuous. It just seems a ridiculously long works exit on the Southbound side of several miles.

Had an interesting drive tonight from J12-J13, they had taken up a good few hundred metres of the surface and put 'Ramp Ahead' signs up. No markings either. Never seen a temporary surface like this on a motorway, needless to say the VMS were signing 40 on approach.

[brummie_rob]

There is now a lane four drop around two miles before J13, partly due to the concrete barrier repairs about a mile back but also to tie in the schemes. The dedicated lane one exit down to J13 has now gone (a great shame as this was great to use in Friday traffic to leave and re-enter and skip the queues on approach to the three lane section).

[Stevie D]

Not strictly on topic but there was an accident just south of junction 13 in the early hours of the morning (11th September 2019), which has lead to the closure of both carriageways. A lorry has rolled over and in the process taken out a 5m chunk of the concrete central barrier. I know that obviously it's not going to be indestructible but it does perhaps pose the question as to whether it is safe enough?

You need to look at what the barrier is there for.

If a lorry rolls onto it and the barrier survives, it will hold the lorry up a few feet off the ground (or at least, it will at the pivot point, but it's implausible that the lorry would have enough rigidity to remain intact and not to simply bend or break over the barrier). So even the ability to withstand a lorry being dropped on it from on high would not offer any additional protection to traffic on the opposite carriageway.

The barrier is there to prevent crossovers, which is a completely different type of pressure on them.

Unless you built it out of Nokia 3210s

[Johnathan404]

Not strictly on topic but there was an accident just south of junction 13 in the early hours of the morning (11th September 2019), which has lead to the closure of both carriageways. A lorry has rolled over and in the process taken out a 5m chunk of the concrete central barrier. I know that obviously it's not going to be indestructible but it does perhaps pose the question as to whether it is safe enough?

News article for reference:
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/st ... ut-3305963

It's worth stressing that there is no barrier around which can contain a HGV. There have been plenty of cases of concrete central barriers in the UK being destroyed in collisions, so this incident doesn't come as a total surprise.

What's important is that the barrier we have is the safest product reasonably available, so I'm not sure what else you might expect. It is stronger than the Armco we've been using for around 40 years, and much stronger than the wire barrier which has been used on key roads like the M62.

[brummie_rob]

Nice to see the concrete barrier which is about seven years old is being drilled away on the original ALR from J12-J13. This just makes the works even longer and seems ridiculous as the barrier is not that old.

[Jeni]

Nice to see the concrete barrier which is about seven years old is being drilled away on the original ALR from J12-J13. This just makes the works even longer and seems ridiculous as the barrier is not that old.

It's a repair from an accident, not a full replacement.

[brummie_rob]

Nice to see the concrete barrier which is about seven years old is being drilled away on the original ALR from J12-J13. This just makes the works even longer and seems ridiculous as the barrier is not that old.

It's a repair from an accident, not a full replacement.

No, that bit has been repaired now. They are actually demolishing large sections of it further up.

[Jeni]

No, that bit has been repaired now. They are actually demolishing large sections of it further up.

Perhaps taking the time to do some maintenance while they've got the closure in place.

Or perhaps making a gap for the contraflow to be extended south?

[Scratchwood]

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/st ... ng-3345157

Yet another accident yesterday causing gridlock in the area. Very frustrating to be stuck in a jam on the A500 trying to get to J15 due to the sheer volume of traffic on the southbound A519 that had diverted from the southbound M6, as I was going northbound!

[brummie_rob]

No, that bit has been repaired now. They are actually demolishing large sections of it further up.

Perhaps taking the time to do some maintenance while they've got the closure in place.

Or perhaps making a gap for the contraflow to be extended south?

The gap for the contraflow makes sense actually!

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/st ... ng-3345157

Yet another accident yesterday causing gridlock in the area. Very frustrating to be stuck in a jam on the A500 trying to get to J15 due to the sheer volume of traffic on the southbound A519 that had diverted from the southbound M6, as I was going northbound!

The A519 is shocking for causing jams, its the lights by Eddie Stobart that cause problems.

[jusme]

Two idle observations...

1) Should this be renamed "M6 junction 12 to junction 15 smart motorway", as the restrictions cover practically the whole of J12-J13 now? That's over 21 miles.

2) On the J12-13 section, what is the legal position when the VMS say 40 and the fixed signage says 50? (Morally I'd say 40, practically, it depends on which speed camera you're passing...)

[Jeni]

1) Should this be renamed "M6 junction 12 to junction 15 smart motorway", as the restrictions cover practically the whole of J12-J13 now? That's over 21 miles.

No

[brummie_rob]

I did have a reply from the contractors communications officer which was as follows:

As the smart motorway scheme progresses, we are moving further South towards junction 13. Upcoming construction of the current scheme requires a temporary arrangement whereby traffic is transferred from its usual side to share the other half of the carriageway with traffic moving in the opposite direction. This system is called contraflow; using contraflow reduces the total number of times we need to close the motorway by up to 50% and shortens the scheme duration by 6 months compared to schemes where only narrow lanes are used. To install the contraflow safely from Junctions 13 to 14, we needed to remove a large section of the central concrete barrier to accommodate a cross-over. A safe location in the central reservation had to be identified, which needed to be on a straight section for maximum visibility and clear of existing drainage channels. This is the reason why the safety barrier extends as far south as it does.



In addition, we had a serious traffic incident, not related to our works on Wednesday 11th September which caused a daytime closure of the M6 between Junctions 12 and 13. The incident involved a lorry crashing into the central concrete barrier causing extensive damage. The barrier did its job and undoubtedly saved lives (minor injuries only to drivers) but extensive repairs were required. These repairs are still ongoing and require a safety test of the new replacement barrier and could take a few more weeks to complete. This is the other reason why traffic cones are installed much further south of junction 13.

[brummie_rob]

Latest update from HE is that the contraflow will be extended from before J13 (where they have removed the existing concrete barrier) to J14 from next week.

Then in January the contraflow from 14-15 will switch to the southbound side to allow the works to move across. As the last section has took around 8 months or so, I'd be very surprised if they don't finish 14-15 well ahead of schedule and that leaves 13-14 to open by 2022.

[Big L]

There is a reasonable length at and south of j14 where it seems precisely zero central reservation work has been done.

[jusme]

Contraflow running northbound J13-14 now. Break at J14, so not 18 miles in one go.

[Bendo]

Does anyone bother using L3 in the contraflow, i tend to find you always get one numpty holding everyone up doing less than 50. Annoying with nowhere to pass, not so bad though as I tend to pass a I've elected not to use it.