M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

[bart]

Will things be that bad? During the day (until 10pm) all lanes will be open, but at reduced speeds. Given the congestion that's almost always there, a reduced speed might actually help with capacity (think VSL).

[Steven]

As this discussion has gone flying off-topic into realms that are absolutely nothing to do with the title, the off-topic posts has been split off appropriately.

[brummie_rob]

Bit of an update on this, the main works will now start in June 2018 (pushed back from March).

Some interesting information which I will try and get clarification from HE on but they say:

We’re carrying out advance work to prepare the motorway for when we start the main construction work in June 2018. As part of this initial work, we have started to resurface those sections along the carriageway in need of repair. We’ll also need to reduce the width of the lanes on the motorway in certain areas so that we can maintain three lanes of traffic while also allowing construction work to be done safely. To do this, we will need to rearrange the road markings and road studs and install a barrier to protect our workers when they start work.

This work will take place from March to July. To minimise disruption, we’re carrying out this work overnight when the volume of traffic is lower, mostly during the week. We will need various overnight closures of the M6 between junction 13 to 15. We will only close one carriageway at a time.

We will put clearly signed diversion routes in place during any necessary closures.

What's next?

The main construction work will start in June 2018. We will start by installing the new concrete central barrier between junction 15 and 14, this will be done in two phases both approximately 10km long. We will then move to the northbound hard shoulder between junctions 14 to 15 to convert this into a running lane. This involves installing new drainage, retaining walls for the emergency areas. Again this will be done in two sections approximately 10km long, first northbound then southbound. This phase of work will run through until spring 2019 when we will then start the work down to junction 13 starting with the central reserve followed by hard shoulder conversion.

It sounds as though the work on this will be phased (thank god) and I think in this order:

Phase 1:

1. Concrete barrier 15-14 (First 10KM)
2. Concrete barrier 15-14 (Second 10KM)
3. Northbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 14-15 (First 10KM)
4. Northbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 14-15 (Second 10KM)
5. Southbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 15-14 (First 10KM)
6. Southbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 15-14 (Second 10KM)

This all to be completed by Spring 2019 (that seems very very optimistic!).

Phase 2:

1. Concrete barrier 14-13
2. Northbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 13-14
3. Southbound Hard Shoulder conversion from 14-13

I tried to ask if narrow lanes and speed restrictions would run throughout on Twitter, but they asked me to call them instead. If this is the approach for this scheme it will be much welcomed.

There are plenty of overnight closures coming up until June, with a whole months worth from May to June (that is why I'm not 100% if they will just install TM through the whole 20 mile stretch and only work on certain sections).

[Benny]

Just my personal view (and I do 10k miles a year on the M6) I think that they would be better serving us, the general public, if they sent the workforce up to the J16-19 works first to help them finish it off before starting this one. They should also review the working hours of the site as I have often driven past 16-19 in 'office hours' to find no one there at all.

[ScottB5411]

Just my personal view (and I do 10k miles a year on the M6) I think that they would be better serving us, the general public, if they sent the workforce up to the J16-19 works first to help them finish it off before starting this one. They should also review the working hours of the site as I have often driven past 16-19 in 'office hours' to find no one there at all.

Completely agree with this. This was often the case on the M1 when they were doing J10 to 13. Loads of cones and equipment still sat there in office hours, protection barriers to protect the workforce, yet no action at all.

[brummie_rob]

Following the implementation of a small section of 50mph just past Stafford services with cameras and a sign saying 'delays until June's, I decided to contact HE to find out more:

For the first three months (until June 2018) we’re undertaking minimal enabling work at the southern end of the scheme. In June, as the enabling works at the southern end progress, we start upgrading the central reserve to a new concrete barrier at the northern end of the scheme. We are limiting the barrier work to a 10km stretch only of narrow lanes through to the autumn. From October onwards, as the central reserve barrier works move south, we will follow behind with contraflow which allows us to speed up the works on the motorway verges.

The overall end date for the entire scheme (junction 13 – junction 15) remains March 2022.

Still doesn't answer my question about a continuous speed restriction but it does mention the 10km sections. Also a contraflow sounds interesting and this may explain why they are doing one side at a time.

[Big L]

Project signs have gone up recently giving a completion date of March 2022.

4 years? That's going to be a delight. Shouldn't the companies doing these projects be getting quicker as get more experienced?

There are currently 3 patches of works, all with Specs 50 limits, matched up with the three railway bridges in the J13-J15 section.

[WHBM]

Project signs have gone up recently giving a completion date of March 2022.

4 years? That's going to be a delight. Shouldn't the companies doing these projects be getting quicker as get more experienced?

The contractors would be delighted to perform the works (and get the revenue) quicker.

Unfortunately this sort of programme is commonly driven by the client, who is only allotted so much cash per year. So if the project is costed at say £400m, but HE can only get £100m per year out of the Treasury for it, then you have to extend over 4 years.

It's not as simple as that, because to do it like that raises your project overhead costs quite notably, so it may come to £120m per year, total project cost £480m. However if the £120m a year is all the Treasury will give, that's what you have to do. If they still will only give, after negotiation, £100m, then you have to extend it a year into 2023 and it now costs £500m. And all these prices are then multiplied by inflation each year, which may make the final amount £600m, instead of doing it all in one hit.

That's (very simplified) life on big projects.

[A303Chris]

There are currently 3 patches of works, all with Specs 50 limits, matched up with the three railway bridges in the J13-J15 section.

I have to say the way they have started this has impressed me. I was worried driving up to Lancashire this weekend that I would have 36 miles of a 46 mile section of the M6 J13 to J19 at 50mph due to the smart motorway works. However given there are only 3 short sections between J13 and J15, it didn't really seem to affect traffic flow as much as the 20 mile block between J16 and J19.

I wonder if the works are to 2022 because it will be a year to do these bridges and they will not start the main ALR works until J16 to J19 is completed early next year, therefore ensuring there is only one big block of roadworks not two.

I was aware that after complaints on the M3, and M1 ALR work, government has said that the maximum length of roadworks should be reduced, so I wonder if this is the start of things to come.

[A303Chris]

I have to say the way they have started this has impressed me. I was worried driving up to Lancashire this weekend that I would have 36 miles of a 46 mile section of the M6 J13 to J19 at 50mph due to the smart motorway works. However given there are only 3 short sections between J13 and J15, it didn't really seem to affect traffic flow as much as the 20 mile block between J16 and J19.

I had wondered if the works are to 2022 because it will be a year to do these bridges and they will not start the main ALR works until J16 to J19 is completed early next year, therefore ensuring there is only one big block of roadworks not two. However the above posts seem to say that I was wrong and we are going to have a long section of roadworks to early next year.

I was aware that after complaints on the M3, and M1 ALR work, government has said that the maximum length of roadworks should be reduced, so I wonder if this is the start of things to come.

[Bryn666]

Following the implementation of a small section of 50mph just past Stafford services with cameras and a sign saying 'delays until June's, I decided to contact HE to find out more:

For the first three months (until June 2018) we’re undertaking minimal enabling work at the southern end of the scheme. In June, as the enabling works at the southern end progress, we start upgrading the central reserve to a new concrete barrier at the northern end of the scheme. We are limiting the barrier work to a 10km stretch only of narrow lanes through to the autumn. From October onwards, as the central reserve barrier works move south, we will follow behind with contraflow which allows us to speed up the works on the motorway verges.

The overall end date for the entire scheme (junction 13 – junction 15) remains March 2022.

Still doesn't answer my question about a continuous speed restriction but it does mention the 10km sections. Also a contraflow sounds interesting and this may explain why they are doing one side at a time.

Contraflow running will just be 3+1 on one carriageway, and 2 on the other. That provides sufficient lateral safety zones for verge works without needing to undertake night time lane closures. It should, if crews are on shifts, be done quicker this way.

[brummie_rob]

Following the implementation of a small section of 50mph just past Stafford services with cameras and a sign saying 'delays until June's, I decided to contact HE to find out more:

For the first three months (until June 2018) we’re undertaking minimal enabling work at the southern end of the scheme. In June, as the enabling works at the southern end progress, we start upgrading the central reserve to a new concrete barrier at the northern end of the scheme. We are limiting the barrier work to a 10km stretch only of narrow lanes through to the autumn. From October onwards, as the central reserve barrier works move south, we will follow behind with contraflow which allows us to speed up the works on the motorway verges.

The overall end date for the entire scheme (junction 13 – junction 15) remains March 2022.

Still doesn't answer my question about a continuous speed restriction but it does mention the 10km sections. Also a contraflow sounds interesting and this may explain why they are doing one side at a time.

Contraflow running will just be 3+1 on one carriageway, and 2 on the other. That provides sufficient lateral safety zones for verge works without needing to undertake night time lane closures. It should, if crews are on shifts, be done quicker this way.

Sounds good, my concern is that the contra-flow may cause bigger queues and possibly a lower speed than 50? And of course if an accident/breakdown happens in the contra-flow it may cause a huge headache with such long distances.

So far, I don't mind the three small sections but I notice all the SPECS cams are now up pretty much, but all remain 'Out of Use', so only a matter of time.

But if this is speeding works up using a contra-flow, what the hell would the projected time be instead?!

[brummie_rob]

Looks like the extension to the current 50mph was being installed overnight northbound. The signs are ready to be flipped and the hard shoulder has being burnt away. On the basis of the stretch now, it will run from Stafford Services to J15, certainly whilst the barrier is installed.

[Benny]

Just to warn everyone that the 'Camera Not in Use' signs have been removed so presume they are now switched on.

The only problem with obeying the speed limit is you run the risk of getting squashed by a lorry as they are all doing 50+ and quite happy to tailgate.

[brummie_rob]

Just to warn everyone that the 'Camera Not in Use' signs have been removed so presume they are now switched on.

The only problem with obeying the speed limit is you run the risk of getting squashed by a lorry as they are all doing 50+ and quite happy to tailgate.

I'm a little confused as at least two of the switched on cameras are several hundred yards from the NSL signs, notably down at J13 SB and I think J14 NB as the speed limits are not continuous.

Barrier works from Stafford services to J15 seem to be progressing at pace, they have also built an extended entry slip at J15 NB which I presume will go into operation when the 50mph section on the north side is extended during overnight closures next week.

[Bendo]

The only problem with obeying the speed limit is you run the risk of getting squashed by a lorry as they are all doing 50+ and quite happy to tailgate.

Thats why I do satnav indicated 55, never had a ticket and never had a lorry going faster than me.

[Chris Bertram]

The only problem with obeying the speed limit is you run the risk of getting squashed by a lorry as they are all doing 50+ and quite happy to tailgate.

Thats why I do satnav indicated 55, never had a ticket and never had a lorry going faster than me.

Pretty much what I do. But there are certain folk around here who will tell you that this is very, very wrong.

[Jeni]

Pretty much what I do. But there are certain folk around here who will tell you that this is very, very wrong.

Not wrong, but wrong to expect others to do it.

[A9NWIL]

The only problem with obeying the speed limit is you run the risk of getting squashed by a lorry as they are all doing 50+ and quite happy to tailgate.

Thats why I do satnav indicated 55, never had a ticket and never had a lorry going faster than me.

Pretty much what I do. But there are certain folk around here who will tell you that this is very, very wrong.

I guess as its only 10% its within the amount that they wont give a ticket for? Thanks to both of you for proving this. Im usually wary about going more than 2mph over or 3-4km/h over. Thats with a satnav checked speedo so I know what is true on the car speedo.

[Chris Bertram]

Thats why I do satnav indicated 55, never had a ticket and never had a lorry going faster than me.

Pretty much what I do. But there are certain folk around here who will tell you that this is very, very wrong.

I guess as its only 10% its within the amount that they wont give a ticket for? Thanks to both of you for proving this. Im usually wary about going more than 2mph over or 3-4km/h over. Thats with a satnav checked speedo so I know what is true on the car speedo.

As long as the guidelines for the prosecution threshold remain limit + 10% + 2mph you should be ok, but every now and again the NPCC's head of traffic policing threatens to reduce this, usually shortly after taking over the post - currently it's the Chief Constable of West Mercia Police - when they feel the need to get their name in the papers. So far nothing has happened, and one suspects that they've been sat on by their fellow police chiefs, having due regard for the importance of the relationship between police and public and the effect that disproportionate enforcement would have on that. But we cannot rule out any change forever.

And if you are pulled in for driving without due consideration or similar, I wouldn't rule out exceeding the limit but under the threshold being brought in as an aggravating factor.