M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

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Big L
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Big L »

Having made the journeya few times recently I must say it's so much more pleasant at 60 southbound.

There seems to be a solitary sign in each direction saying they are installing vehicle detection cameras overnight.
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brummie_rob
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

The 60mph has made the daily commute much nicer, away from the lorries. Rarely see any incidents as well now that caused so many unreliable journeys pre-covid when the varioguard was in place. There are posts appearing nightly which presumably will house the radars.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bendo »

Heading south on Friday was, as expected, pretty horrible with the amount of people sat in L3 barely doing 50.

Then randomly the AMIs started displaying 50 contradicting the 60 signs. Why, if the AMIs work, use them. If not don't show a limit different to the fixed signage.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Duple »

Did this section both ways yesterday and found the "lane closed to protect the workforce" amusing.. as I didn't see anyone at all both ways !
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by A9NWIL »

How much of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester is under traffic management right now?
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Duple
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Duple »

lotrjw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 16:44 How much of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester is under traffic management right now?
I think now, Jnc 9 - 10, 13-15 and through 19.

I wonder if the southbound 15-14 Smartification will open soon as it looks visually complete and even the tarmac looked consistent, pretty much all the way to 13 except the last bridge where it looked a bit of a mess.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by JammyDodge »

Bendo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:04 Heading south on Friday was, as expected, pretty horrible with the amount of people sat in L3 barely doing 50.

Then randomly the AMIs started displaying 50 contradicting the 60 signs. Why, if the AMIs work, use them. If not don't show a limit different to the fixed signage.
When I came through around 6pm they were still up, but traffic was moving fine. I stuck to 60 rather than 50 due to it not being every AMI stating 50, with more 60 limits distributed in-between
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A9NWIL
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by A9NWIL »

Duple wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 18:46
lotrjw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 16:44 How much of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester is under traffic management right now?
I think now, Jnc 9 - 10, 13-15 and through 19.

I wonder if the southbound 15-14 Smartification will open soon as it looks visually complete and even the tarmac looked consistent, pretty much all the way to 13 except the last bridge where it looked a bit of a mess.
Thanks so no loads thankfully.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

Duple wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 18:46
lotrjw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 16:44 How much of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester is under traffic management right now?
I think now, Jnc 9 - 10, 13-15 and through 19.

I wonder if the southbound 15-14 Smartification will open soon as it looks visually complete and even the tarmac looked consistent, pretty much all the way to 13 except the last bridge where it looked a bit of a mess.
Visually it was ready to open, however the government stock-take means the radar needs installing. These are on posts at several hundred yard intervals and they need wiring up to the existing electrical gantries so every night at the moment they close two lanes off to install a new radar point. They've got quite a lot to go judging by what I've seen so far and a recent HE report suggests the original March 2022 date will be the finish now, and not September 2021 which was the new date they announced.

Driving standards since summer holidays began are appalling through the roadworks, lanes two and three are constantly full of vehicles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TzocIGypZ4&t=3s) and this is happening daily at the moment but is worse on Monday and Friday. Thankfully though the disruption we've faced due to breakdowns in the works through the last few summers is less frequent due to the hard shoulder (I mean lane one) being coned off.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by ManomayLR »

brummie_rob wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:07 Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
What I never get is why, in the meantime, Lane 1 cannot be painted as a hard shoulder (solid line) and lanes 2, 3, and 4 opened at 70 as a D3M? Lane 1's lane control signal can have a red X if there are speed limits on lanes 2-4, and MS4s can reinforce the message "Hard shoulder for emergency use only" - but the hard shoulder would not be opened until SVD was ready, and even then as a permanent lane.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bomag »

EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 13:17
brummie_rob wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:07 Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
What I never get is why, in the meantime, Lane 1 cannot be painted as a hard shoulder (solid line) and lanes 2, 3, and 4 opened at 70 as a D3M? Lane 1's lane control signal can have a red X if there are speed limits on lanes 2-4, and MS4s can reinforce the message "Hard shoulder for emergency use only" - but the hard shoulder would not be opened until SVD was ready, and even then as a permanent lane.
Probably cross section issues, the extra width of hard shoulder can make a significant difference on an already tight cross section. Also, given the cross section of ALR the marking will need to be rollover Class P5 - not easy to remove without marking the (new?) road surface and leaving a ghost marking.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by ChrisH »

EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 13:17
brummie_rob wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:07 Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
What I never get is why, in the meantime, Lane 1 cannot be painted as a hard shoulder (solid line) and lanes 2, 3, and 4 opened at 70 as a D3M? Lane 1's lane control signal can have a red X if there are speed limits on lanes 2-4, and MS4s can reinforce the message "Hard shoulder for emergency use only" - but the hard shoulder would not be opened until SVD was ready, and even then as a permanent lane.
We have the same issue on the M4. J9-12 have been finished for months now but are still coned off to three lanes and 60mph. The latest news from HE suggests the SVD won't be ready until March 2022 - which will mean J9-10 will have had roadworks for nearly four years to paint the hard shoulder as a running lane.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Chris5156 »

EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 13:17
brummie_rob wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:07 Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
What I never get is why, in the meantime, Lane 1 cannot be painted as a hard shoulder (solid line) and lanes 2, 3, and 4 opened at 70 as a D3M? Lane 1's lane control signal can have a red X if there are speed limits on lanes 2-4, and MS4s can reinforce the message "Hard shoulder for emergency use only" - but the hard shoulder would not be opened until SVD was ready, and even then as a permanent lane.
I can think of two reasons - one is that it looks bad, in PR terms, to have done all these roadworks for so long and then reopen the road you’d promised to widen in the same state as when you started. Even if it was a temporary measure it would generate an awful lot of bad press and a fair amount of unhappiness among the people who use the road. If there are still roadworks happening people will grumble but it’s just a delay and that’s more easily accepted.

The second is that we already have trouble with people driving in hard shoulders when they shouldn’t, or failing to use lane 1 of four-lane roads when they should. Temporarily painting a running lane as a hard shoulder, then repainting it as a running lane a few months later, is only going to create confusion among the type of driver who doesn’t look far beyond the end of their bonnet.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by ManomayLR »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 17:52
EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 13:17
brummie_rob wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:07 Confirmation from the project page today that the scheme was due to open this month however due to the stocktake will now open by the original scheme date of March 2022. The last full overnight closures to finish the remaining resurfacing are taking place this month so that just leaves the vehicle detection units to install under overnight lane closures. Thank god for the 60mph limit to make it less painful!
What I never get is why, in the meantime, Lane 1 cannot be painted as a hard shoulder (solid line) and lanes 2, 3, and 4 opened at 70 as a D3M? Lane 1's lane control signal can have a red X if there are speed limits on lanes 2-4, and MS4s can reinforce the message "Hard shoulder for emergency use only" - but the hard shoulder would not be opened until SVD was ready, and even then as a permanent lane.
I can think of two reasons - one is that it looks bad, in PR terms, to have done all these roadworks for so long and then reopen the road you’d promised to widen in the same state as when you started. Even if it was a temporary measure it would generate an awful lot of bad press and a fair amount of unhappiness among the people who use the road. If there are still roadworks happening people will grumble but it’s just a delay and that’s more easily accepted.

The second is that we already have trouble with people driving in hard shoulders when they shouldn’t, or failing to use lane 1 of four-lane roads when they should. Temporarily painting a running lane as a hard shoulder, then repainting it as a running lane a few months later, is only going to create confusion among the type of driver who doesn’t look far beyond the end of their bonnet.
what about a temporary switch to DHSR?
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by darkcape »

EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 19:18 what about a temporary switch to DHSR?
No! For the exact same reasons Chris has outlined. DHSR requires way more technology than what has been installed.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by ManomayLR »

darkcape wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 23:10
EpicChef wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 19:18 what about a temporary switch to DHSR?
No! For the exact same reasons Chris has outlined. DHSR requires way more technology than what has been installed.
Fair enough. Didn’t think about how DHSR needs full lane control signals but ALR has just MS4s.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

The first radars have appeared close to J15, progress seems to have been quite quick on getting the bases installed, so curious as to how March 2022 is the new end date.

Was also good to see tonight the police making lane hoggers move over to the left, was entertaining to watch them flash the lights and wave to move across.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by jusme »

brummie_rob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 22:37 The first radars have appeared close to J15, progress seems to have been quite quick on getting the bases installed, so curious as to how March 2022 is the new end date.
Here's one...
vlcsnap-2021-08-23-09h05m36s478.jpg
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Duple »

Coming through here today both south then north, lots of white "pods" have appeared as per the photo above, I would say 75% of the way? Makes you wonder why this was never as part of the original spec but money I guess ?

Some of the VMS was active southbound contradicting the fixed signage, not sure how that stands legally ? I guess its advisory, I went by the lower limit but others didn't.

Really frustrates me how much of a mess everything is surrounding these works though. Why can't they put the VMS to use - most of today's traffic jams were caused by people in lane 3 /4 trying to merge northbound after junction 12 where the lane drop is. But at junction 12 itself the traffic was averaging 60mph, why not just put keep left arrows up a junction before or some form of warning "lane closure after junction 12" which I'm sure I've seen on an MS4 before?

Is it just lack of care for their "customers" or computer can't do that, but it must be able to if that actual lane gets closed, no?
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