Hard Ings Road A650

[wrinkly]

I wasn't aware that not all motorways were trunk roads. I know about the Special Road term, but thought that the whole motorway network was HE?
Which others aren't trunk?

Another notable examble is the M62 west of the M57 junction. That was originally trunk, and the M57 was non-trunk, but they did a swap, to trunk the route to Seaforth docks.

Other previously non-trunk motorways include the M606, M621 and the oldest part of the M60 (J7-13, previously M63, originally M62).

[jackal]

There's zero chance of the M65 going east. I reckon a bog standard D2 at best; remember the M65 isn't even trunk at that end and HE aren't going to take over it whilst it involves expensive problems like

I wasn't aware that not all motorways were trunk roads. I know about the Special Road term, but thought that the whole motorway network was HE?
Which others aren't trunk?

City centre motorways like the A57(M), A58(M), A167(M), and a few others like the M275. The eastern part of the M65 is the longest local authority motorway and is itself only ten miles or so.

I think it's only from Burnley that it's local authority, so closer to half that length, and only just longer than the A329(M).

Another surprising one is the Western end of the M62.

(I'm going off this map: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... rk_Man.pdf)

[Johnathan404]

Another notable examble is the M62 west of the M57 junction. That was originally trunk, and the M57 was non-trunk, but they did a swap, to trunk the route to Seaforth docks.

Which is odd because the signposted route to the ferries is to stay on the M62.

[wrinkly]

DfT approval

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2988902

[hat]

These improvement works have just completed. Despite the developer’s description of a dual carriageway, its actually half D2 and half S4, oddly with no signage to indicate this change (images in the newsletter link below)

https://mailchi.mp/c192d4847579/hard-in ... badaf32014

[Fozzy]

Drove on there twice this week for work. Once in each direction. Road flowed well however it was middle of the day on Tuesday and Wednesday so may be busy during rush hours.

[hat]

Has the feel of a bit of a racetrack now, sadly I’m sure that will be tested thoroughly by the local idiots.

[Bryn666]

Has the feel of a bit of a racetrack now, sadly I’m sure that will be tested thoroughly by the local idiots.

Have the speed cameras been removed as part of the work? I always found those to be an odd site given the levels of congestion.

The last time I went through was June and it was still a festival of roadworks so I would be interested to see how it functions. I wonder if connectivity for pedestrians and cyclists is any good?

[hat]

There have never been any cameras on this section, there are no fixed cameras on the A650 until Shipley. They have installed a cycle path and pedestrian crossings at light controlled junctions. Overall it looks a great job but its not been tested at peak traffic yet, and even this winter it won’t be with a good percentage of commuters working from home

[Bryn666]

Aha, it must be Shipley I'm confusing it with, I could've sworn there used to be a camera there but memory plays tricks.

It always seemed a strange gap given the high purpose built duals either side. A classic example of British piecemeal planning.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

Why was it built part single S4 and part dual D2 – wasn't full D2 one of the proposed options of this (somewhat watered down!) scheme?

Chris Williams

[Jim606]

Why was it built part single S4 and part dual D2 – wasn't full D2 one of the proposed options of this (somewhat watered down!) scheme?

I am sure it has been discussed somewhere before, that several of these short D2 schemes are being built as S4 to save money and land take. We had a good example here in Colchester when the about 100m of the A133 'Colne Bank Avenue' was widened to four lanes without a central reservation.

It would be nice to see that northern leg of the A629 renumbered to be the final leg of the A650 once the gap is filled. Once it's all dualed it becomes the logical continuation of the A650, not the squiggly town-centre A629.

No doubt many of us, including myself would like to see this happen. I don't know why it wasn't done when that section was built in the late 1980s?

[Bryn666]

Why was it built part single S4 and part dual D2 – wasn't full D2 one of the proposed options of this (somewhat watered down!) scheme?

I am sure it has been discussed somewhere before, that several of these short D2 schemes are being built as S4 to save money and land take. We had a good example here in Colchester when the about 100m of the A133 'Colne Bank Avenue' was widened to four lanes without a central reservation.

It would be nice to see that northern leg of the A629 renumbered to be the final leg of the A650 once the gap is filled. Once it's all dual it becomes the logical continuation of the A650, not the squiggly town-centre A629.

No doubt many of us, including myself would like to see this as well. I don't know why it wasn't done when that that section was built in the late 1980s?

If Shipley ever gets sorted out I'd argue the A65 should go this way.

[Jim606]

If Shipley ever gets sorted out I'd argue the A65 should go this way.

The whole route M62/M606 Chain Bar via the A650 (A629)to the M65 has the potential to become a major new Trans Pennine crossing. However, as stated by the fact that this topic is currently being discussed amongst several threads indicates just how problematic this is. Hard Ings Road has been one of the obvious 'easy to solve', 'missing links' for years. But, there are many more complicated issues further down the line, not least the Shipley Tunnel. This is a complex issue within itself and is not likely to happen anytime soon, if at all.

Using the A65 number would link the route more with Leeds and would need some serious renumbering across a wide area. Just extending the A650 to the Skipton bypass seems to make more sense.

[jackal]

You'd need a mega project at the Shipley end to make a major strategic route, and I see no appetite for that. But a lot of people live in Airedale with no DC (or S4!) connection to the outside world. That's the value of a decent link from the A629 at Crosshills to the M65.

[ellandback]

If Shipley ever gets sorted out I'd argue the A65 should go this way.

Using the A65 number would link the route more with Leeds and would need some serious renumbering across a wide area.

Indeed, and that raises a very serious issue with Bryn's proposal, one that is likely to prove way more problematic than trifling matters such as cost and signage.

As you say, the inference of moving the A65 to Airedale is that the current A65 would also need renumbering - presumably to A660 between Skipton and Burley and then some four-digit number (which frankly is all it deserves) for the last leg into Leeds.

Well, good luck telling the people of Ilkley their town is now worthy only of a three-digit road number rather than the two-digit one they have always been accustomed to.

[Bryn666]

If Shipley ever gets sorted out I'd argue the A65 should go this way.

Using the A65 number would link the route more with Leeds and would need some serious renumbering across a wide area.

Indeed, and that raises a very serious issue with Bryn's proposal, one that is likely to prove way more problematic than trifling matters such as cost and signage.

As you say, the inference of moving the A65 to Airedale is that the current A65 would also need renumbering - presumably to A660 between Skipton and Burley and then some four-digit number (which frankly is all it deserves) for the last leg into Leeds.

Well, good luck telling the people of Ilkley their town is now worthy only of a three-digit road number rather than the two-digit one they have always been accustomed to.

Most of them wouldn't care. They'd probably be grateful that the 40+ year old direction signs were being tidied up.

[Jim606]

Using the A65 number would link the route more with Leeds and would need some serious renumbering across a wide area.

Indeed, and that raises a very serious issue with Bryn's proposal, one that is likely to prove way more problematic than trifling matters such as cost and signage.

As you say, the inference of moving the A65 to Airedale is that the current A65 would also need renumbering - presumably to A660 between Skipton and Burley and then some four-digit number (which frankly is all it deserves) for the last leg into Leeds.

Well, good luck telling the people of Ilkley their town is now worthy only of a three-digit road number rather than the two-digit one they have always been accustomed to.

Most of them wouldn't care. They'd probably be grateful that the 40+ year old direction signs were being tidied up.

Yes, but, that would mean removing old oddities like this A65 sign at the end of The Grove (B6382) in Ilkley

Old A65 sign on The Grove in Ilkley

[Bryn666]

Indeed, and that raises a very serious issue with Bryn's proposal, one that is likely to prove way more problematic than trifling matters such as cost and signage.

As you say, the inference of moving the A65 to Airedale is that the current A65 would also need renumbering - presumably to A660 between Skipton and Burley and then some four-digit number (which frankly is all it deserves) for the last leg into Leeds.

Well, good luck telling the people of Ilkley their town is now worthy only of a three-digit road number rather than the two-digit one they have always been accustomed to.

Most of them wouldn't care. They'd probably be grateful that the 40+ year old direction signs were being tidied up.

Yes, but, that would mean removing old oddities like this A65 sign at the end of The Grove (B6382) in Ilkley
IMG_0642.JPG

Eeeeeh, the A65 still ends up passing Skipton so that technically isn't wrong even if you pulled off a major numbering change. Failing that get it in a museum and preserved.

Given Shipley will likely never be sorted the question of reorganising strategic corridors isn't going to arise, I'd be happy with the A650 idea, but we really need to stop clinging to the notion that a 100 year old numbering system is still fit for purpose when it is full of oddities and errors that hinder rather than help navigation. You should be able to use the road network without relying on a Sat Nav - which means signs and numbering needs to be tip top.