A27 Arundel Bypass

[M19]

Hence I don't have any respect for the Campaign for Backward Transport. Their default position is no roads, regardless of whether any that do deliver real improvements. Some 20 or so years after the A74 was upgraded to D3M, it's still nicely free-flowing. So what do they make of that?

On the other side of the coin though, there are a lot of underengineered schemes with crap junctions that somehow get 'modelled' to show that they will work over a given period, yet are obviously designed to fail, and not surprisingly, do from day one, which only goes to fuel the "more roads, more congestion" cliche.

Keeping on the general point about road schemes, what is the point in trying to justify a scheme to work, when it's obvious, even to the untrained eye that it won't? It's worse in a sense than doing nothing. It's better to have fewer schemes that do work than many that are all crap and will cost a fortune to fix, only then to see them bodged again....and so it goes. It doesn't do the highways profession any favours.

[RichardEvans67]

The other day, I was driving along the A25 from Oxtead to Westerham, which is roughly parallel to the M25. I found it a very pleasant drive, mostly because there was only very light traffic. Then it occurred to me what it would have been like if the M25 hadn't been built. I would have been horrendous.

Then in Westerham there were narrow places between building, that really wouldn't be able to cope with traffic, but all was fine because the traffic was so light.

Now it's been decades since the M25 was built, but no sign of the traffic returning to that part of the A25. So despite all the moans about the M25 being congested, it's still taking loads of traffic away from other roads and it would be absolutely horrendous without it.

[RichardEvans67]

Another story.

I saw a TV program about the building of the M1, and some lorry driver were saying how good it was that they can now get from London to Scotland in the same day. I took that as an example of how bad things must have been before big roads were built. And despite all the congestion on the M1 today, it no where near bad enough to talk about not being able to get from London to Scotland in the same day.

[Berk]

The other day, I was driving along the A25 from Oxtead to Westerham, which is roughly parallel to the M25. I found it a very pleasant drive, mostly because there was only very light traffic. Then it occurred to me what it would have been like if the M25 hadn't been built. I would have been horrendous.

Then in Westerham there were narrow places between building, that really wouldn't be able to cope with traffic, but all was fine because the traffic was so light.

Now it's been decades since the M25 was built, but no sign of the traffic returning to that part of the A25. So despite all the moans about the M25 being congested, it's still taking loads of traffic away from other roads and it would be absolutely horrendous without it.

Exactly, this is the point that CBT and others seem to forget.

[Chris5156]

The other day, I was driving along the A25 from Oxtead to Westerham, which is roughly parallel to the M25. I found it a very pleasant drive, mostly because there was only very light traffic.

Lucky you. Whenever I've used it, it's been a tedious, endless procession of slow traffic!

Then it occurred to me what it would have been like if the M25 hadn't been built. I would have been horrendous.

Then in Westerham there were narrow places between building, that really wouldn't be able to cope with traffic, but all was fine because the traffic was so light.

Now it's been decades since the M25 was built, but no sign of the traffic returning to that part of the A25. So despite all the moans about the M25 being congested, it's still taking loads of traffic away from other roads and it would be absolutely horrendous without it.

Perhaps. How many people using the parallel M25 would be making their journey by road, or would be making it along the A25, if the M25 had never existed? Would scores of people be commuting by car between towns on the periphery of London by trying to get through Westerham?

[Fluid Dynamics]

The other day, I was driving along the A25 from Oxtead to Westerham, which is roughly parallel to the M25. I found it a very pleasant drive, mostly because there was only very light traffic. Then it occurred to me what it would have been like if the M25 hadn't been built. I would have been horrendous.

Then in Westerham there were narrow places between building, that really wouldn't be able to cope with traffic, but all was fine because the traffic was so light.

Now it's been decades since the M25 was built, but no sign of the traffic returning to that part of the A25. So despite all the moans about the M25 being congested, it's still taking loads of traffic away from other roads and it would be absolutely horrendous without it.

I travel through Westerham most days, and any sign of a problem on the M25 and the road suffers badly. The biggest bottleneck on that road now is the lights in Sundridge which often cause queues back to the A21 at rush hour due to no space for filter lanes and subsequently traffic trying to turn right, blocking traffic proceeding on the A25. However, things have definitely improved since ALR was implemented on J5-6 of the M25.

Interestingly, the Sevenoaks Local Plan includes provision for the completion of the western half of the Westerham bypass that would mean the A25 would avoid the town all together.

[Chris5156]

Interestingly, the Sevenoaks Local Plan includes provision for the completion of the western half of the Westerham bypass that would mean the A25 would avoid the town all together.

Will that include changes to the eastern terminus of the bypass that currently see it ending on the A25 at a Give Way sign? I'd assume you'd need a roundabout there or something similar.

[Fluid Dynamics]

Interestingly, the Sevenoaks Local Plan includes provision for the completion of the western half of the Westerham bypass that would mean the A25 would avoid the town all together.

Will that include changes to the eastern terminus of the bypass that currently see it ending on the A25 at a Give Way sign? I'd assume you'd need a roundabout there or something similar.

I haven't seen the exact plans, but I hope so. The current arrangement makes people coming from the Biggin Hill direction on the A225 wanting to go west on the A25 or south on the B2026 still use the old road and constrained T junction in the centre of Westerham, that can cause significant queues at peak times.

The road would be developer funded as part of the Squerryes development, and not surprisingly is unpopular with residents who are concerned it will effect business. I expect the responsibility for the eastern roundabout would fall on Kent CC.

[RichardEvans67]

by Chris5156 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:15

Perhaps. How many people using the parallel M25 would be making their journey by road, or would be making it along the A25, if the M25 had never existed? Would scores of people be commuting by car between towns on the periphery of London by trying to get through Westerham?

Presumably a lot less, as that amount presumably could not possibly get through Westerham. Which would have slowed the economy considerably, and Westerham would probably still be a nightmare, and any other potential local routes would also be jammed up.

[GeekyJames]

Small update on the Arundel Bypass plans, taken from One Arundel group:

”Highways England is continuing to reflect upon the varied consultation feedback we have received from the public and stakeholders, and we have been developing the scheme further to ensure we have taken into account all the issues raised”.

“This work has included further traffic modelling, economic and environmental assessments, and these are currently being reviewed to inform our final decision. We expect to publish the consultation report and to make an announcement on the next steps by the end of May.”

“Preferred Route Announcement within the next two months”.

[Bryn666]

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... el-bypass/

Looks like a route has been announced.

[RichardEvans67]

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... 100518.pdf

The preferred route is a modification of option 5a.
I don't yet know what the modifications are, as I haven't yet had time to look at it properly.

[wrinkly]

Having taken feedback from the public
consultation into account, we have modifid the
design to address some of the concerns that
were raised during the consultation. Specifially:

To further improve safety:
„ The junction at the western end of the
bypass will be revised so that local traffi
from Yapton Lane and Shellbridge Road
will be clearly separated from motorists
joining/leaving the A27.

To reduce the environmental
impact:
„ The alignment of the route has changed
slightly so that it crosses the River Arun
further south than initially proposed. This
will reduce the impact on the Tortington
Priory scheduled monument.

„ We are also revising the layout of the
junction at the western end of the scheme
to reduce the impact on ancient woodland.
The environment-related scheme objectives
will continue to guide the ongoing design
development, and we will continue to seek
design improvements in order to incorporate
enhancements and further mitigate the
environmental impacts.

We look forward to working with the relevant
stakeholders to develop these proposals

[mikehindsonevans]

A very sensible routing, far from the town, re-utilising Crossbush (with a service area, no less!) and reducing congestion.
I liked the self-congratulatory quoting of the Highways hit parade - including the A556 and A14 schemes - "haven't we done well" .

Now, what does the Campaign for backward Transport see to moan about now??

[Berk]

Looks good. Hopefully can proceed to examination asap.

[RichardEvans67]

Probably the best option, but I wonder if they have done anything to mitigate the impact on Binstead. I'm still reading it.

Edit:
Looks like they will be looking a lot harder at mitigation measures as they look at the scheme in more detail.

[jackal]

Looks good. Hopefully can proceed to examination asap.

They still have to take it through statutory consultation. But yes, definitely the right decision.

[mrvixen]

Wondering about the re-numbering that'll be needed.
Presumably the current town bypass will just lose the multiplex and become the A284... But what of the stretch west to meet the new junction?
Would it warrant an A number?

[mikehindsonevans]

Wondering about the re-numbering that'll be needed.
Presumably the current town bypass will just lose the multiplex and become the A284... But what of the stretch west to meet the new junction?
Would it warrant an A number?

"S**ew the number debate, just complete the bypass, please!

[Berk]

After completion, the A27 will then have only 2 rubbish bits up to Brighton - Chichester and Worthing.

I suggest it’d be cheaper to bulldoze half of Worthing.