A27 Arundel Bypass

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Bryn666
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 09:13
Phil wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 20:44
jackal wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:06
Land cost is small fry compared to millions for an unnecessary bridge.
Not in the South East of England it isn't!
Another zombie idea that just won't die. Average sale price in SE England for 2016-2018 was £10,100/acre for arable and £8,200/acre for pasture. It's miniscule compared to the cost of an extra skewed bridge and associated earthworks.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets- ... price-area
You have this obsession with numbers and always fail to appreciate there are reasons beyond numbers why things are done. Given HE are happy to penny pinch on every scheme they promote, there will be a sound reason why they're building two bridges...
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jervi
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by jervi »

Although not directly related to the A27, the A284 that multiplexes with the A27 through Arundel is getting a bypass of its own just south of the A27. The southern half of this has already started construction (developer lead), while the north section (council lead) released their CPOs within the last week of so.
The scheme is fine, however there is a bridleway crossing the road which is also used for farm vehicles, and I'm convinced they have made this type of junction up (a motor vehicle crossing?)
Take a look page 2. And here is the flyby
I presume it's going to be an "ahead only" crossroads that will be abused like every other one in Sussex.

Also its a shame they they will not improve the section Crossbush Junction & this new bypass, it is only a 600m gap! Just a shared cycle/ped path along there will be a great benifit!
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jackal
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

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Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:41
jackal wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 09:13
Phil wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 20:44

Not in the South East of England it isn't!
Another zombie idea that just won't die. Average sale price in SE England for 2016-2018 was £10,100/acre for arable and £8,200/acre for pasture. It's miniscule compared to the cost of an extra skewed bridge and associated earthworks.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets- ... price-area
You have this obsession with numbers and always fail to appreciate there are reasons beyond numbers why things are done.
I'd love to hear more about your number-free approach. Perhaps you could do for engineering what Sokal did for quantum physics :wink:

https://physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/t ... efile.html
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Bryn666
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:11
Bryn666 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:41
jackal wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 09:13
Another zombie idea that just won't die. Average sale price in SE England for 2016-2018 was £10,100/acre for arable and £8,200/acre for pasture. It's miniscule compared to the cost of an extra skewed bridge and associated earthworks.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets- ... price-area
You have this obsession with numbers and always fail to appreciate there are reasons beyond numbers why things are done.
I'd love to hear more about your number-free approach. Perhaps you could do for engineering what Sokal did for quantum physics :wink:

https://physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/t ... efile.html
Less of the sarcasm. You're arguing that HE must do everything to the bottom line when real world factors like politics, land disputes, or even things like they just don't want to, are in play.

Not everything is based on what a QS thinks, despite what QS' think.
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someone
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

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This is an odd forum where people think a specific example proves something cannot be the case in general, but also that something specific can be disproved by not being generally the case.

Anyway, looking at the environmental constraints diagram in the consultation brochure, there appears to be two "ancient/veteran/notable trees" within the loop of Binsted Lane.

So I looked at the Environmental Assessment Report and it is clear that a one-bridge solution to Binsted Lane would definitely see one of those trees destroyed. Possibly that is the reason for not linking the new section to the north of the line of the A27, even despite trees in the south east on average being neither ancient, veteran, nor notable?

trees.jpg
https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... ix+7-3.pdf
jervi wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:07The scheme is fine, however there is a bridleway crossing the road which is also used for farm vehicles, and I'm convinced they have made this type of junction up (a motor vehicle crossing?)
Surely Access 03 and 04 immediately to the north of the crossing (or the left as in the diagram) are for the farm vehicles to cross?
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by jackal »

someone wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 14:30Anyway, looking at the environmental constraints diagram in the consultation brochure, there appears to be two "ancient/veteran/notable trees" within the loop of Binsted Lane.

So I looked at the Environmental Assessment Report and it is clear that a one-bridge solution to Binsted Lane would definitely see one of those trees destroyed.
I appreciate the effort but those two trees are about 100m apart, more than enough to thread a link through the gap.
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jervi
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

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someone wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 14:30
jervi wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:07The scheme is fine, however there is a bridleway crossing the road which is also used for farm vehicles, and I'm convinced they have made this type of junction up (a motor vehicle crossing?)
Surely Access 03 and 04 immediately to the north of the crossing (or the left as in the diagram) are for the farm vehicles to cross?
03 & 04 immediately south of the crossing appears to be access for the fields as well as access to the underside of the bridge/viaduct.
likewise 06 immediately north is access to fields/property.
crossing.jpg
This is what I mean. Blue is the new shared ped/cycle path beside the road (crosses sides here). Green is the bridleway. and Maroon is the farm track (rejoins bridleway both sides). I would be surprised if any crossing in the UK, is made up of three crossings on the same carriageway! Also the video (which I presume was made by some who works in graphics & animation, not a road designer or engineer) shows push buttons for what appears to be the vehicle crossing, but the buttons for the horsey crossing are lacking.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by Chris5156 »

I agree that this is the right choice, and great to see - after the debacle at Chichester - that this option is being taken forward.

As always, arguments will be made that it's pointless because Chichester and Worthing will still be awful. Those arguments will continue to make no sense to me; that's an argument for never upgrading any part of the A27 because other bits haven't been fixed yet. You have to start somewhere and this is a great improvement that will only serve to make long-term strategic fixes at Chichester and Worthing harder to avoid.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by SteveA30 »

Yes, the A27 is on the same trajectory as the A3, A34, A11. Petersfield, Liphook, Milford, finally Hindhead. Sutton Scotney, Burghclere, finally Newbury (and M4 J13). Red Lodge, Thetford, finally Elvedon. Each new section turns the spotlight on the bits not done. I'm sure HE know this and, that is the strategy.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by jervi »

The A27 Arundel scene has gone silent over the past few months.
NIP now has Q4 2021/Q1 2022 as the expected date of getting the submission. Until December last year it was Q2 2021. So now I'd guess it to be unlikely to start construction before 2023, or completed before 2026.

Also along the preferred route there is a new housing development that commenced development about around Q3 2019 (about the same time as new routes were announced)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84727 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Not entirely sure what it will mean for this new development or the road. The access road to the estate will have to be removed and likely get access off of Tye Lane (as it will become a no-through road when the A27 is built), also some of the A27's embankments would have to become walls instead since CPO'ing a dozen gardens a few years after they are built is likely to not be popular.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by B4444 »

Watching the fly- through route on the HE website, they were certainly aware of the estate as the field is annotated as 'Avisford Grange development'!
From the developers website:

Beautiful, green spaces to enjoy, with the South Downs and Walberton Green on your doorstep. Superb amenities and transport links close by, plus good leisure facilities, with tennis courts on-site and Avisford Park Golf Club next door. Our wonderful new houses for sale in Walberton offer all this.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by JammyDodge »

jervi wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 20:01 The A27 Arundel scene has gone silent over the past few months.
NIP now has Q4 2021/Q1 2022 as the expected date of getting the submission. Until December last year it was Q2 2021. So now I'd guess it to be unlikely to start construction before 2023, or completed before 2026.

Also along the preferred route there is a new housing development that commenced development about around Q3 2019 (about the same time as new routes were announced)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84727 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Not entirely sure what it will mean for this new development or the road. The access road to the estate will have to be removed and likely get access off of Tye Lane (as it will become a no-through road when the A27 is built), also some of the A27's embankments would have to become walls instead since CPO'ing a dozen gardens a few years after they are built is likely to not be popular.
I think one of the older flythrough videos showed this section in a trench with retaining walls, as it is a threading the needle case, only taking out the estates current access road and a golf hole? pretty good going to be honest. If the new residents are surprised at the new road right nextdoor, that is on them in my opinion. (I have no idea how house buying works, but I imagine this sort of thing would be noted somewhere)
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jervi
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by jervi »

JammyDodge wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 22:14 I think one of the older flythrough videos showed this section in a trench with retaining walls, as it is a threading the needle case, only taking out the estates current access road and a golf hole? pretty good going to be honest. If the new residents are surprised at the new road right nextdoor, that is on them in my opinion. (I have no idea how house buying works, but I imagine this sort of thing would be noted somewhere)
It does show retaining walls for the existing houses, but then turns into a cutting w/embankment which for a short distance does extend into the field where homes are being built. But it shouldn't be too difficult putting in retaining walls and moving the access road to the estate.
The road is also cutting up the golf courses either side of the road, but its a bog standard golf course, it can be re-configured if needs be.

When buying property most people will get a land search done which will reveal the history of the property, such as all planning applications, as well as potential hazardous past use and if there is a plan for an expressway style road to be built next door. When the preferred route was announced, there was an article in the media (couldn't find it) of a home buyer of one of those houses and their defense was that their solicitor said that HE choosing Grey was extremely unlikely.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by JammyDodge »

jervi wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 00:11
JammyDodge wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 22:14 I think one of the older flythrough videos showed this section in a trench with retaining walls, as it is a threading the needle case, only taking out the estates current access road and a golf hole? pretty good going to be honest. If the new residents are surprised at the new road right nextdoor, that is on them in my opinion. (I have no idea how house buying works, but I imagine this sort of thing would be noted somewhere)
It does show retaining walls for the existing houses, but then turns into a cutting w/embankment which for a short distance does extend into the field where homes are being built. But it shouldn't be too difficult putting in retaining walls and moving the access road to the estate.
The road is also cutting up the golf courses either side of the road, but its a bog standard golf course, it can be re-configured if needs be.
This does seem to be the case with the wall, however I would imagine HE would do a more up to date drawing, taking into account the new development and extend the retaining walls
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by GeekyJames »

Good to see surveys and ground investigation work getting under way:

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... st-updates
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by trickstat »

Chris5156 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 22:18 I agree that this is the right choice, and great to see - after the debacle at Chichester - that this option is being taken forward.

As always, arguments will be made that it's pointless because Chichester and Worthing will still be awful. Those arguments will continue to make no sense to me; that's an argument for never upgrading any part of the A27 because other bits haven't been fixed yet. You have to start somewhere and this is a great improvement that will only serve to make long-term strategic fixes at Chichester and Worthing harder to avoid.
Belated reply - that argument also ignores the fact that at peak periods, it will assist with quite a large number of journeys that involve neither of those other 2 sections. Something that can easily be overlooked by non-locals on a site like this.
Last edited by trickstat on Tue Apr 20, 2021 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

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BOH
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by BOH »

GeekyJames wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 22:20 Arundel bypass contract let -

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 3-04-2021/
The timescale in the linked article says 4-5 years to build it?? :o
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by Fluid Dynamics »

BOH wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 21:43
GeekyJames wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 22:20 Arundel bypass contract let -

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 3-04-2021/
The timescale in the linked article says 4-5 years to build it?? :o
That's mad, the article states construction is expected to begin in 2023/24 and is scheduled to be completed by 2030. I hope a large part of the latter chunk of that time is turning half of the old road into a cycleway.
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Re: A27 Arundel Bypass

Post by jackal »

They are just going on what the RIS2 delivery plan says - start 2023/24, end RP3. RP3 is 2025-2030, so yes, 2030 is technically the latest possible date. But in reality a scheme like this won't be in construction for 6 years, probably half that in fact.
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