A6 Broughton Bypass

[fras]

Having waited what seemed like forever at the notorious cross-roads, , (although it was probably only about 10-15 minutes), can I be allowed to comment ?.

The youngsters on here may well not have read the Buchanan Report of 1962 - "Traffic in Towns", (I have, although it was in the 70s so my memory fades). This report investigated a helluva lot of things related to traffic in and around towns. Essentially it's guiding principle for the investigation was "what do we have to do to allow unrestricted and free-flowing traffic with no delays and traffic jams". From my reading of it, it essentially came to the conclusion that it would be impossible to cater for this nirvana, the infrastructure needed would cost too much and involve too much demolition and disruption to the existing road layout. In this regard, I took particular interest in Newbury where I went to the grammar school, (St Bartholomews). The suggested degree of alteration and addition to the roads of Newbury would have been exceedingly disruptive. Of course, as we all know, this has never been done yet Newbury still functions, apparently. What has been done is the building of a very controversial bypass. (remember "Swampy" anybody ?). He''ll be middle-agedby now now, I wonder what he is doing now.

So what has happened since the Buchanan Report ? Well, firstly, the Transport Minister on the day the report was published, (the notorious Ernest Marples), soon kicked the report into touch. At the time a large programme of motorway construction was underway, so there was little money left for local schemes. Notwithstanding this, a large number of "relief" roads were built in towns and cities over the years to date, just look at Newbury now and then. Many of these removed heavy traffic from existing streets where it had become intolerable to motorists and residents, but over the years the traffic "problem" just grew and grew, but without any serious local or central government action to alleviate it. Essentially the message in the report that one could not cater for all demand was read as "don't bother doing anything at all", and so we end up in 2017 with a serious traffic problem.

Now at last there seems to be realisation that whilst it is essentially impossible to meet the "free-flowing and delay-free movement" principle in the Report, things need to be done to at least alleviate the traffic problem, and cycling and walking, although laudable, is nowhere near the solution. So I see this bypass as part of that realisation that if economic life in towns and cities is not to come to a complete standstill, road schemes are still needed just to match economic growth. Economic growth leads to extra traffic as night follows day. So I salute the opening of this by-pass, and may there be lots more schemes that at least attempt to deal with some of the traffic growth we have experienced over the last 25 years. It is impossible to build such that every movement will suffer no delays but we can at least have a target of 80% handled most of the time.

[fras]

According to Jeni's video the speed limit is 40 throughout? What is the compliance? 30 years ago it would have been NSL, 15 years ago it would have been 50. Is 40 the now standard limit for short bypasses without no property frontages

40mph! that is low! But I guess this is for a road thats considered close enough to developed areas?

Even if you were able to drive a 60 mph, the roundabouts at each end, with their inevitable queue mean you would gain virtually no advantage over driving along at 40 mph. Having said that it does seem a bit barmy, though. Of course this is Lancashire, the home of ubiquitous 20 limits in places where you wonder "what on earth is this limit here for ?" Yes, you guessed right, the answer is "to b*gger you about", that's why.

[Jeni]

Of course this is Lancashire, the home of ubiquitous 20 limits in places where you wonder "what on earth is this limit here for ?" Yes, you guessed right, the answer is "to b*gger you about", that's why.

Yes, of course, why didn't we think of this, that's exactly what they do!

[Bryn666]

Or it could just be that the curvature of the road has a design speed of 40 mph...

The old road was 40, before it was reduced to 30. Not that it mattered as average speed was more like 7.

[ScottB5411]

Of course until limits we deregulated, all the major routes into, out of and around Preston were 40mph, if not 50 in some cases. Quite amusingly, that's the speed most people still travel at, fancy that.....

[Arcuarius]

According to Jeni's video the speed limit is 40 throughout? What is the compliance? 30 years ago it would have been NSL, 15 years ago it would have been 50. Is 40 the now standard limit for short bypasses without no property frontages

So? Times change. Perhaps people should be told to slow down because they go too fast for the conditions. It's not the fault of the highway authority that people drive like morons.

[Bryn666]

Of course until limits we deregulated, all the major routes into, out of and around Preston were 40mph, if not 50 in some cases. Quite amusingly, that's the speed most people still travel at, fancy that.....

The only one that I can think of that was reduced was Garstang Road and that was years and years ago.

The B6241 is still 40, the Ashton Bypass is still 50, Brockholes Brow is still 40 despite the lanes being narrower than a car.

Was London Road ever higher than 30 then? It's now got SPECS so good luck speeding there

[A9NWIL]

According to Jeni's video the speed limit is 40 throughout? What is the compliance? 30 years ago it would have been NSL, 15 years ago it would have been 50. Is 40 the now standard limit for short bypasses without no property frontages

40mph! that is low! But I guess this is for a road thats considered close enough to developed areas?

Even if you were able to drive a 60 mph, the roundabouts at each end, with their inevitable queue mean you would gain virtually no advantage over driving along at 40 mph. Having said that it does seem a bit barmy, though. Of course this is Lancashire, the home of ubiquitous 20 limits in places where you wonder "what on earth is this limit here for ?" Yes, you guessed right, the answer is "to b*gger you about", that's why.

The 20mph limit that is unenforceable and most drivers including the police drive at 30mph or close to that.

As far as the new bypass is concerned Im sure if it had been done in the 60s or70s it would have been freeflow from the M55 roundabout all the way past the village with the old road through the village meeting the M55 roundabout as its own entity, just like I said above. Then a 60mph limit or even NSL would have made perfect sense! It would have risen over the B road that heads east so not much chance then of kids getting onto the bypass.
This is 2017 though and road building isnt as popular as it once was!

[A9NWIL]

Of course until limits we deregulated, all the major routes into, out of and around Preston were 40mph, if not 50 in some cases. Quite amusingly, that's the speed most people still travel at, fancy that.....

Yes ignoring a ridiculous speed that doesnt match the 85th percentile any more!

[A9NWIL]

According to Jeni's video the speed limit is 40 throughout? What is the compliance? 30 years ago it would have been NSL, 15 years ago it would have been 50. Is 40 the now standard limit for short bypasses without no property frontages

So? Times change. Perhaps people should be told to slow down because they go too fast for the conditions. It's not the fault of the highway authority that people drive like morons.

There are many speeds that dont make sense to good drivers these days because they dont follow the 85th percentile!

[wrinkly]

As far as the new bypass is concerned Im sure if it had been done in the 60s or70s it would have been freeflow from the M55 roundabout all the way past the village

I think that's rubbish. No other section of the A6 bypassed by motorways in the NW is to such a standard.

[A9NWIL]

As far as the new bypass is concerned Im sure if it had been done in the 60s or70s it would have been freeflow from the M55 roundabout all the way past the village

I think that's rubbish. No other section of the A6 bypassed by motorways in the NW is to such a standard.

Thats only because the M6 itself was considered the bypass of the A6 in the northwest.

[wrinkly]

As far as the new bypass is concerned Im sure if it had been done in the 60s or70s it would have been freeflow from the M55 roundabout all the way past the village

I think that's rubbish. No other section of the A6 bypassed by motorways in the NW is to such a standard.

Thats only because the M6 itself was considered the bypass of the A6 in the northwest.

The M6 and, a little further south, the M61. You seem to be agreeing with me,

[A9NWIL]

I think that's rubbish. No other section of the A6 bypassed by motorways in the NW is to such a standard.

Thats only because the M6 itself was considered the bypass of the A6 in the northwest.

The M6 and, a little further south, the M61. You seem to be agreeing with me,

My point is if it wasnt byassed by motorways it would have been a fully freeflow bypass with NSL if done 50-60 years ago.

[Bryn666]

Unlikely. It would have at best had a three lane configuration given the A6 either side is constrained.

[Patrick Harper]

According to Jeni's video the speed limit is 40 throughout? What is the compliance? 30 years ago it would have been NSL, 15 years ago it would have been 50. Is 40 the now standard limit for short bypasses without no property frontages

TBH, given the distances between the roundabouts it doesn't make much sense to accelerate past 40 anyway.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

When I had to get the bus from Morecambe to Preston in my first year at college, 1977/1978, the entire stretch of A6 between the end of Lancaster's built–up area at Scotforth and just past Lightfoot Lane lights (apart from Galgate Village itself) was unlit NSL (the ½ mile between the M55 and the beginning of Preston's 40 limit was once edge–marked), and traffic flows were much, much better then!

The rot set in when LCC started putting in street–lighting, followed by cycle–lanes and the creeping 40 disease, I am very strongly of the opinion that if LCC abolished the cycle–lanes, the speed limits and removed the street–lighting the A6 would still be free–flowing enough to have made the Broughton Bypass unnecessary!

Chris Williams

[wrinkly]

The rot set in when LCC started putting in street–lighting, followed by cycle–lanes and the creeping 40 disease, I am very strongly of the opinion that if LCC abolished the cycle–lanes, the speed limits and removed the street–lighting the A6 would still be free–flowing enough to have made the Broughton Bypass unnecessary!

Well if you don't mond mowing down pedestrians and cyclists, and letting drivers grow old waiting to turn out of the B road ...

[A9NWIL]

Unlikely. It would have at best had a three lane configuration given the A6 either side is constrained.

It could still have been a fully freeflow S2 or S3 road.

[ScottB5411]

Unlikely. It would have at best had a three lane configuration given the A6 either side is constrained.

It could still have been a fully freeflow S2 or S3 road.

OK, we know you would rather have a fully grade separated by-pass, as you keep saying over and over. Others disagree and are entitled to, please, move on and stop trying to derail the thread.