Severn Bridge tolls cut "for first time"

[WHBM]

BBC story that Severn Bridge tolls are to be reduced, with multiple references to it being "for the first time". An unusual point to labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41271239

Except they are wrong.

When the bridge first opened, with old money, it was 2 shillings and 6 pence, which was actually an old coin ("half a crown"). When decimalisation came along in 1971 this translated to 12.5p. Due to the way legislation for the bridge had been framed, it was not possible to increase them without parliamentary approval. The government had a thin majority. Half pence values were inconvenient. So it was reduced (sorry BBC) to 12 pence. And there it remained for some years, until there was a government with sufficient majority to alter the legislation.

[aj444]

I think they are twice wrong....

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/arti ... lls-appeal

[CrazyInWeston]

Isnt the bridge going to remove toll charging completely from next year?

As per this article: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -next-year

[Berk]

I can't understand why tolls are running at all under public ownership - even at a lower rate.

[jackal]

This article seems to clarify a few points:

- HE take over in January.
- For 2018 the toll will be reduced as VAT won't be charged.
- The toll will then be abolished at the end of 2018.
- The 'first time' claim appears to come from the government

I don't know the exact rationale for continuing the toll in 2018 at a reduced rate, but it seems on the face of it an elegant way for HE to build some funds to cover the new maintenance costs on their balance sheet.

[Bendo]

It's nice that the tolls are being abolised to help the local economy.

It's a shame the local economy is clearly not important in another area of the country where tolls will be introduced on the coming weeks.

[A9NWIL]

This article seems to clarify a few points:

- HE take over in January.
- For 2018 the toll will be reduced as VAT won't be charged.
- The toll will then be abolished at the end of 2018.
- The 'first time' claim appears to come from the government

I don't know the exact rationale for continuing the toll in 2018 at a reduced rate, but it seems on the face of it an elegant way for HE to build some funds to cover the new maintenance costs on their balance sheet.

Its a shame they dont get rid of the toll booths at the same time? They could start using ANPR and get online payments or phone payments, using credit or debit card only. Those that dont pay, eg blue badge holders, can put in the blue badge number or prove their exemption another way.
That would allow a significant reduction in the toll price and allow two way tolling until they stop the tolls.
The ANPR system could be left in place on the old bridge to stop HGVs using it too.

[Isleworth1961]

The ANPR system could be left in place on the old bridge to stop HGVs using it too.

Why stop HGVs using the old bridge?

[A9NWIL]

The ANPR system could be left in place on the old bridge to stop HGVs using it too.

Why stop HGVs using the old bridge?

As its like the Forth Road Bridge it has issues with cable corrosion, yes its less severe than the FRB because its had about 24/25 years less heavy traffic since the SSC was built in the early 90s, but its still going to be weaker than it should be.
So sending HGVs over the SSC only while allowing cars and vans to use the old bridge at will would extend the life of the old bridge, even further than if HGVs did use it. Likely they use the new one anyway though.

[Isleworth1961]

As its like the Forth Road Bridge it has issues with cable corrosion, yes its less severe than the FRB because its had about 24/25 years less heavy traffic since the SSC was built in the early 90s, but its still going to be weaker than it should be.
So sending HGVs over the SSC only while allowing cars and vans to use the old bridge at will would extend the life of the old bridge, even further than if HGVs did use it. Likely they use the new one anyway though.

From that statement I guess you're not currently a frequent user of the Severn Bridge? You'd often see HGVs using it even now, and I don't think that's likely to stop either. It's not just tourists and holidaymakers heading over to Chepstow and the Forest of Dean.

[Octaviadriver]

The ANPR system could be left in place on the old bridge to stop HGVs using it too.

There is a lot of industry near the Severn Estuary off the A403 between the M4 and Avonmouth and access is very poor. When I recently visited this area coming from Wales, to get to the A403 I went over the old bridge on the M48 and exited at Severn View services for the A403 which then goes over the M4 and M49. The only alternative is to take the Second Severn Crossing, M49 and then exit into Avonmouth and come back in the opposite direction on the A403, which is much further. There were many HGVs on the A403 accessing the M48 via the Severn View junction and any going to and from Wales will need to use the old bridge.

Access to the area could easily be improved by a link road from the roundabout at the junction of the M4/M49 or a link road to the A403 from the M49.

[jackal]

They're building a new junction on the M49 to improve access. Discussion here:

viewtopic.php?t=36228

[Octaviadriver]

They're building a new junction on the M49 to improve access. Discussion here:

viewtopic.php?t=36228

Thanks Jackal. I hadn't spotted that discussion and it's a very welcome improvement, though I didn't see any evidence of it being started last time I was on the M 49.

[A9NWIL]

If they had curved the M49 round to the east a bit so as to make the juction with the M4 where the A403 crosses the M4 then the A403 could have formed part of the junction. Thats lack of foresight as Im sure that the A403 was well enough used in the 90s?

[jackal]

They're building a new junction on the M49 to improve access. Discussion here:

viewtopic.php?t=36228

Thanks Jackal. I hadn't spotted that discussion and it's a very welcome improvement, though I didn't see any evidence of it being started last time I was on the M 49.

They didn't start main works just yet but will do in the next few months.

[hoagy_ytfc]

... in another area of the country where tolls will be introduced on the coming weeks.

I'm probably being dim, but what are you referring to, here?

[Big L]

... in another area of the country where tolls will be introduced on the coming weeks.

I'm probably being dim, but what are you referring to, here?

Mersey?

[hoagy_ytfc]

Mersey?

See, I said I was being dim

[fras]

... in another area of the country where tolls will be introduced on the coming weeks.

I'm probably being dim, but what are you referring to, here?

Mersey?

The sheer barmness of the new tolls across the Mersey is that the old bridge of 1956 that replaced the tolled transporter bridge is toll-free, but will have tolls imposed because the new bridge will have them.

So why any tolls at all on either bridges ? Indeed why toll any of the Mersey crossings ?

[Robert Kilcoyne]

I'm probably being dim, but what are you referring to, here?

Mersey?

The sheer barmness of the new tolls across the Mersey is that the old bridge of 1956 that replaced the tolled transporter bridge is toll-free, but will have tolls imposed because the new bridge will have them.

So why any tolls at all on either bridges ? Indeed why toll any of the Mersey crossings ?

I would not be surprised if many drivers will now avoid the tolls by using the Thelwall Viaduct instead. Traffic from the south and Midlands heading for Widnes, the southern suburbs of Liverpool and the airport will probably use the M6, M62 and either the A557 or A5300 in future.