Most northerly mention of an English destination on a Scottish roadsign?

[Chris Bertram]

Wakefield (103k) is an interesting one, as it's clearly a large town, but like all the other large Yorkshire cities, their city status isn't awarded to the place itself, but the much, much bigger local government district.

In fact Wakefield, being in possession of a cathedral, was a city long before the larger metropolitan district of Wakefield was created in 1974.

The parish church became a cathedral in 1888, but the council had to apply separately for city status. This was granted the same year, but even then Wakefield was not a County Borough, that came in 1913.

[Steven]

Wakefield (103k) is an interesting one, as it's clearly a large town, but like all the other large Yorkshire cities, their city status isn't awarded to the place itself, but the much, much bigger local government district.

In fact Wakefield, being in possession of a cathedral, was a city long before the larger metropolitan district of Wakefield was created in 1974.

The parish church became a cathedral in 1888, but the council had to apply separately for city status. This was granted the same year, but even then Wakefield was not a County Borough, that came in 1913.

Indeed, and then in 1974 the status was reapplied to the district, not to the town itself. The city charter reads something like "The Borough of Wakefield shall have the status of a City" IIRC.

Short form - the legalese around city status is seriously weird.

[the cheesecake man]

Short form - the legalese around city status is seriously weird.

Correct. The cities of Cambridge, Hull and Nottingham do not have Anglican cathedrals but the towns of Southwell, Blackburn and Guildford do. The Cities of Derby and Sheffield are very similar to the cities, the Cities of Leeds and Carlisle are much larger than the cities including large rural areas and multiple small towns, the Cities of Newcastle and Nottingham are much smaller than the cities excluding many outer suburbs. Luton (population 231,000) and Northampton (220,000) are not Cities but Ely (20,000) and Wells (12,000) are. A City Council may be a powerful district or unitary authority, a modest parish council or just a nominal board of charter trustees with no real power. And lets not get started on the City of London or the ex-City or Rochester!

[Chris Bertram]

Short form - the legalese around city status is seriously weird.

Correct. The cities of Cambridge, Hull and Nottingham do not have Anglican cathedrals but the towns of Southwell, Blackburn and Guildford do. The Cities of Derby and Sheffield are very similar to the cities, the Cities of Leeds and Carlisle are much larger than the cities including large rural areas and multiple small towns, the Cities of Newcastle and Nottingham are much smaller than the cities excluding many outer suburbs. Luton (population 231,000) and Northampton (220,000) are not Cities but Ely (20,000) and Wells (12,000) are. A City Council may be a powerful district or unitary authority, a modest parish council or just a nominal board of charter trustees with no real power. And lets not get started on the City of London or the ex-City of Rochester!

That's a comedy of errors. Several new unitaries were being created in 1998 - Herefordshire, and BANES among them. Hereford and Bath took care to appoint charter trustees to preserve their city status, which duly happened. At the same time, Rochester-upon-Medway and Gillingham merged to become the new Medway UA. Rochester neglected to appoint trustees, and lost its city status, though it didn't discover this until four years later when it was absent from an official list of cities. In their defence, the story of Rochester's city status is slightly more complicated than most - in 1974, a new borough of Medway comprising Rochester, Chatham and Strood was created, and letters patent were drawn up to preserve Rochester's city status on the old boundaries. By 1984, the borough had been renamed Rochester-upon-Medway, and the city status extended to the whole borough. It is possible that the council officials drew from this the inference that the city status would be extended to the new UA, and this informed their decision not to appoint Charter Trustees. If so, they were wrong and what had been a city since the 13th century was no longer.

The other way of having city status apply to other than a whole borough or district is to have it apply to a parish or community-level council, such as Wells or St David's

[Andy P]

Returning to the subject of Wakefield, which is my birthplace. It has the nickname "The Merrie City", which is usually stated to be from the Middle Ages.

The parish church became a cathedral in 1888, but the council had to apply separately for city status. This was granted the same year, but even then Wakefield was not a County Borough, that came in 1913.

But as Chris stated, it didn't become a city until 1888.

The Wikipedia article on Wakefield cites "Wakefield Worthies" by J. H. Lupton as its reference for the nickname. But that book refers only to "Merrie Wakefield".

So I'm wondering whether "The Merrie City" is actually a post-1888 adaptation of "Merrie Wakefield".

[Steven]

The other way of having city status apply to other than a whole borough or district is to have it apply to a parish or community-level council, such as Wells or St David's

This isn't quite true.

There are a number of places where the status specifically is assigned to the town itself within the city charter which don't have any of the above. Wolverhampton is one, as is Newport which specifically assigned to "the town of Newport in the County Borough of Newport" clearly separating it from the district.

[Chris Bertram]

The other way of having city status apply to other than a whole borough or district is to have it apply to a parish or community-level council, such as Wells or St David's

This isn't quite true.

There are a number of places where the status specifically is assigned to the town itself within the city charter which don't have any of the above. Wolverhampton is one, as is Newport which specifically assigned to "the town of Newport in the County Borough of Newport" clearly separating it from the district.

Wales is unlike England in that Community councils cover the entire country. England has unparished areas, Wales has no equivalent to this. That said, Newport is divided into several Communities, so perhaps only a few of these are included in the "city" area. WRT Wolverhampton, don't all the new signs at the boundary welcome you to the City of Wolverhampton?

[Steven]

WRT Wolverhampton, don't all the new signs at the boundary welcome you to the City of Wolverhampton?

They do indeed. But then that's because the district itself is actually called "City of Wolverhampton" rather than "Wolverhampton" - go and look at a modern Landranger for what I mean, then compare it to a 1990s one.

Districts can call themselves whatever they like - it just needs a council decision to do that. As a stupid example, here's no reason why, say, Sandwell council couldn't rename itself to "City of Oldbury" - it wouldn't mean that Oldbury has city status all of a sudden, or that West Bromwich has suddenly become a part of Oldbury (the town).

[Chris Bertram]

WRT Wolverhampton, don't all the new signs at the boundary welcome you to the City of Wolverhampton?

They do indeed. But then that's because the district itself is actually called "City of Wolverhampton" rather than "Wolverhampton" - go and look at a modern Landranger for what I mean, then compare it to a 1990s one.

Districts can call themselves whatever they like - it just needs a council decision to do that. As a stupid example, here's no reason why, say, Sandwell council couldn't rename itself to "City of Oldbury" - it wouldn't mean that Oldbury has city status all of a sudden, or that West Bromwich has suddenly become a part of Oldbury (the town).

Hmm, if Sandwell did that, it would receive a stern rebuke from the Ministry of Justice (I think) and be ordered to change it back.

Anyway, we've got a long way away from Scottish roadsigns ...

[Osthagen]

Hmm, if Sandwell did that, it would receive a stern rebuke from the Ministry of Justice (I think) and be ordered to change it back.

Anyway, we've got a long way away from Scottish roadsigns ...

It is relevant that you bring up Sandwell District Council because, as I’ve mentioned many times, it was there on the A461 at M6 J9 where the most southerly reference to a (proper) Scottish destination used to appear on a sign.