A1M Fog between junction 47 to junction 51

[JLRacerZz]

Hello as of this morning the Northbound carriageway way is closed at junction 49 the accident involves two lorries. I live in this area and this section of the a1m and this section is notorious for having problems with fog so is there anyway to prevent and push down the effects of fog I would say lighting since this section of the A1M has no lighting one it but the locals probably won't be happy with that so is there anyway other way and if you reading this now please avoid the area there is 2 hours of delays currently and the traffic is backing up near enough to junction 46

[RichardA35]

Hello as of this morning the Northbound carriageway way is closed at junction 49 the accident involves two lorries. I live in this area and this section of the a1m and this section is notorious for having problems with fog so is there anyway to prevent and push down the effects of fog I would say lighting since this section of the A1M has no lighting one it but the locals probably won't be happy with that so is there anyway other way and if you reading this now please avoid the area there is 2 hours of delays currently and the traffic is backing up near enough to junction 46

Perhaps vehicles should slow down and drive to the conditions?
I would say there is no technological solution to change the weather only to mitigate the effects (e.g. lighting) but if the weather (fog) overpowers the technology you are back to the same position.

[JLRacerZz]

Yeah true is mostly down to drivers not driving to the safely to the conditions

[punyXpress]

Don't Autobahns have fog sensors in likely spots to give some warning?
Then all we need is to get the 'usual suspects' to take some notice.

[Chris5156]

Don't Autobahns have fog sensors in likely spots to give some warning?
Then all we need is to get the 'usual suspects' to take some notice.

We've had electronic signs that say "fog" for decades. When you're driving on a road in the fog and you pass a sign that says "fog", do you notice any effect on people's driving habits?

If there's fog reducing onward visibility you need to slow down; nobody should need a sign pointing out that the fog exists.

[jackal]

Depending on the origin of the fog a bund or barrier might help - or make things worse!

[XC70]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

[wrinkly]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

Weren't there claims a firework display helped to cause it?

In the 1960s there were a number of major pileups on motorways in fog. It led to the introduction of the 70 limit among other things.

[WHBM]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

Weren't there claims a firework display helped to cause it?

It was caused by a gross firework display by the adjacent rugby club, I regret to say in my old home town. Another firework contractor had already rejected doing such a display next to the motorway, upwind in the prevailing wind, as too dangerous. So they went to someone else. A spectator (the local vicar), who was attending, saw the huge smoke bank develop and said he hoped it didn't affect the motorway. then they heard the collisions. This all came out at the inquest, which just returned an "Accidental death" verdict.

The town has a different opinion ...

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

Weren't there claims a firework display helped to cause it?

In the 1960s there were a number of major pileups on motorways in fog. It led to the introduction of the 70 limit among other things.

I think that it may have led to a number of motorways being lit as well, even in rural areas, where there were few junctions. The M1 through Northamptonshire, Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire comes to mind, also the M5 through Worcestershire. I wonder whether the M6 around Keele Services was also lit for this reason.

[Pendlemac]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

Weren't there claims a firework display helped to cause it?

It was caused by a gross firework display by the adjacent rugby club, I regret to say in my old home town. Another firework contractor had already rejected doing such a display next to the motorway, upwind in the prevailing wind, as too dangerous. So they went to someone else. A spectator (the local vicar), who was attending, saw the huge smoke bank develop and said he hoped it didn't affect the motorway. then they heard the collisions. This all came out at the inquest, which just returned an "Accidental death" verdict.

The town has a different opinion ...

As did the coroner.

Direct quote from a BBC news article here

Fireworks smoke was "not to blame" for a crash on the M5 which killed seven people, a coroner has ruled.

The pile-up on the M5 near Taunton in November 2011 happened next to a fireworks display at a rugby club but there was also thick fog in the area.

Michael Rose said: "I dismiss smoke being the cause of the crash."

But the West Somerset coroner added: "I cannot exclude the possibility that smoke may have added to the intensity of the reduced visibility."

[A9NWIL]

Was a sudden and unexpected bank of fog not the cause of a big pile up and multiple fatac on the M5 a few years back? Cant remember the exact outcome from the coroner....

Weren't there claims a firework display helped to cause it?

In the 1960s there were a number of major pileups on motorways in fog. It led to the introduction of the 70 limit among other things.

I was thinking about the fact the 70mph limit got introduced because of fog. Otherwise it really makes no sense it's there. This is certainly one situation where drivers need to slow down!
There is also issues with detecting who is driving badly in fog because they can't be seen that easily.

[KeithW]

I was thinking about the fact the 70mph limit got introduced because of fog. Otherwise it really makes no sense it's there. This is certainly one situation where drivers need to slow down!
There is also issues with detecting who is driving badly in fog because they can't be seen that easily.

I don't think there was any one cause such as accidents in the fog. Hitting the back end of a pileup at 60 is bad enough but what kills is the 28 ton trunk that piles into your rear end. The reality is that car occupant fatalities were high in the early 1970's for a variety of reasons. Cars had got faster, most cars built in the 1960's had max realistic cruising speeds in the 50-65 mph range but by the mid 70's you could buy family cars capable of cruising at 75-85 mph. Trucks had also got faster and heavier. Protection of occupants however was still poor. At best there would be seat belts for the front seats, no air bags and no crumple zones. The roads themselves were not great, while the motorways had barriers by then many D2 roads had nothing more than a raised kerb between the carriageways and there were still a lot of S3 roads around. Brakes and steering were still pretty poor, many cars on the road still had drum brakes, there was no such thing as ABS or stability control and the handling on many popular cars was positively dangerous. The MK III Cortina was a classic example, corner too fast and the first clue was that it started to understeer, slow down too quickly at that point and it could snap into massive oversteer and send you spinning across 2 lanes of traffic. Then of course there were the sheep who continued at 70 mph through fog that reduced visibility to yards or on winter roads that resembled skating rinks. They are still with us unfortunately.

[A9NWIL]

I was thinking about the fact the 70mph limit got introduced because of fog. Otherwise it really makes no sense it's there. This is certainly one situation where drivers need to slow down!
There is also issues with detecting who is driving badly in fog because they can't be seen that easily.

I don't think there was any one cause such as accidents in the fog. Hitting the back end of a pileup at 60 is bad enough but what kills is the 28 ton trunk that piles into your rear end. The reality is that car occupant fatalities were high in the early 1970's for a variety of reasons. Cars had got faster, most cars built in the 1960's had max realistic cruising speeds in the 50-65 mph range but by the mid 70's you could buy family cars capable of cruising at 75-85 mph. Trucks had also got faster and heavier. Protection of occupants however was still poor. At best there would be seat belts for the front seats, no air bags and no crumple zones. The roads themselves were not great, while the motorways had barriers by then many D2 roads had nothing more than a raised kerb between the carriageways and there were still a lot of S3 roads around. Brakes and steering were still pretty poor, many cars on the road still had drum brakes, there was no such thing as ABS or stability control and the handling on many popular cars was positively dangerous. The MK III Cortina was a classic example, corner too fast and the first clue was that it started to understeer, slow down too quickly at that point and it could snap into massive oversteer and send you spinning across 2 lanes of traffic. Then of course there were the sheep who continued at 70 mph through fog that reduced visibility to yards or on winter roads that resembled skating rinks. They are still with us unfortunately.

I see what you mean about cars in the 70s, I did think the 70 limit was brought in in the 60s though?
Today though, I understand the situation with regards to bad conditions, but other than that cars can cope at higher speeds than 70MPH on motorways, thats also born out by the fact that cops are unlikely to do someone for going 80MPH when the limit is 70MPH.
I think what is needed is a mandatory limit of 60MPH if its foggy and/or icy, then the dry limit could become 80MPH or unrestricted.

[Stevie D]

In the 1960s there were a number of major pileups on motorways in fog. It led to the introduction of the 70 limit among other things.

I was thinking about the fact the 70mph limit got introduced because of fog. Otherwise it really makes no sense it's there. This is certainly one situation where drivers need to slow down!
There is also issues with detecting who is driving badly in fog because they can't be seen that easily.

Although that is what a few websites say, I don't think that crashes in fog were the primary reason for the 70mph limit. For a start, there was to be a 20mph limit in force when roads were foggy, and for a second, the average family car couldn't do much more than 70mph – in fog, even 70 would be lethally fast, so the limit wouldn't slow most drivers down and it wouldn't slow any drivers down enough. (In 1965, the top speed of a mid-range Ford Cortina was only 82mph). It's more likely that the main reason for the limit being introduced was sports car manufacturers who were using the newly-opened motorways to test their cars (and I'm sure some owners were as well), including AC who reached over 180mph on one occasion.

[A9NWIL]

In the 1960s there were a number of major pileups on motorways in fog. It led to the introduction of the 70 limit among other things.

I was thinking about the fact the 70mph limit got introduced because of fog. Otherwise it really makes no sense it's there. This is certainly one situation where drivers need to slow down!
There is also issues with detecting who is driving badly in fog because they can't be seen that easily.

Although that is what a few websites say, I don't think that crashes in fog were the primary reason for the 70mph limit. For a start, there was to be a 20mph limit in force when roads were foggy, and for a second, the average family car couldn't do much more than 70mph – in fog, even 70 would be lethally fast, so the limit wouldn't slow most drivers down and it wouldn't slow any drivers down enough. (In 1965, the top speed of a mid-range Ford Cortina was only 82mph). It's more likely that the main reason for the limit being introduced was sports car manufacturers who were using the newly-opened motorways to test their cars (and I'm sure some owners were as well), including AC who reached over 180mph on one occasion.

Im sure it was denied that the 70mph limit was introduced because of racing cars being tested? That also doesnt explain why the limit was set to 70mph though why not 80mph, 90mph or 100mph? Is it due to most family cars being able to reach 70mph or just under? 80mph would certainly have been a better limit, with a mandateory 50mph in fog on motorways.

[Bryn666]

The 70 limit was brought in because of accidents and also because the design speed has always been around 75 mph.

Whilst high speed tests were true they had no bearing on the introduction of the temporary limit in December 1965.

[A9NWIL]

The 70 limit was brought in because of accidents and also because the design speed has always been around 75 mph.

Whilst high speed tests were true they had no bearing on the introduction of the temporary limit in December 1965.

I see so down to the design speed of the road, time we were able to use 75mph as a speed limit which will only work as 120km/h I suppose! Or just scrap it and give an advisory of 75mph, with a mandatory limit of 60mph if conditions are bad, eg wet/icy carriageway or reduced visibility. Same with APDCs that are NSL, with single carriageways that are NSL perhaps an advisory of 60mph (unless thats totally unsafe) and a mandatory 50mph in bad conditions?

[Bryn666]

They tried "reasonable and prudent" as a speed limit in Montana and then rapidly found out no one can define it.

I don't think derestriction will solve any issues on motorways due to vast numbers of motorway vehicles now being electronically limited to well below 70. Unless we metricated and adopted 120 km/h, I would say that speed limit increases on motorways are a dead duck.