The end of "plain" traffic signals
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The end of "plain" traffic signals
Having to do several trips in a day across London and into the Home Counties, it struck me that we have pretty much seen the end of plain, straightforward, traffic signals at cross roads. no pedestrian phase, no clever split-cycles, no turn arrows, just plain old A-B-A-B.
There was just one I noticed in all that driving. Surprisingly, in the middle of Kensington
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49752 ... 312!8i6656
Last of a dying breed ?
There was just one I noticed in all that driving. Surprisingly, in the middle of Kensington
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49752 ... 312!8i6656
Last of a dying breed ?
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Whenever I visit London I'm always surprised by how many of these there still are, and how user unfriendly they are compared to crossings! In the rest of the country they are already very rare
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Having a pedestrian phase isn't so bad as long as it's only activated by a pedestrian else it should be skipped.WHBM wrote:Having to do several trips in a day across London and into the Home Counties, it struck me that we have pretty much seen the end of plain, straightforward, traffic signals at cross roads. no pedestrian phase, no clever split-cycles, no turn arrows, just plain old A-B-A-B.
There was just one I noticed in all that driving. Surprisingly, in the middle of Kensington
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49752 ... 312!8i6656
Last of a dying breed ?
Formerly known as 'lortjw'
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
This is the only one closest to what your after that I can think of
https://goo.gl/maps/DiX5oSEwgPr
Has a right turn filter arrow, but not a seperate head so you can turn right straight away if nothings coming
Dropped kerbs but no other ped facilites
I am waiting for the council to 'improve' this juncton with a lots of extra signal heads, seperate right turn signals so you have to always wait and of course full cycle and ped crossings at each arm
https://goo.gl/maps/DiX5oSEwgPr
Has a right turn filter arrow, but not a seperate head so you can turn right straight away if nothings coming
Dropped kerbs but no other ped facilites
I am waiting for the council to 'improve' this juncton with a lots of extra signal heads, seperate right turn signals so you have to always wait and of course full cycle and ped crossings at each arm
- RichardA35
- Committee Member
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- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
- Location: Dorset
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Hopefully Yes. As a pedestrian in London traffic, I want a clear message that it is safe to cross and not have to chance it in a gap amongst traffic or between signal phases.WHBM wrote:Having to do several trips in a day across London and into the Home Counties, it struck me that we have pretty much seen the end of plain, straightforward, traffic signals at cross roads. no pedestrian phase, no clever split-cycles, no turn arrows, just plain old A-B-A-B.
There was just one I noticed in all that driving. Surprisingly, in the middle of Kensington
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49752 ... 312!8i6656
Last of a dying breed ?
If that slows you down then tough, but should you be driving in London, really?
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Exactly. Too many have the pedestrian phase on each cycle even if not activated and then you end up with a period when nothing is moving. I much prefer the American system where pedestrians get a green light when road traffic is travelling the same way. That way there's only two phases. The only drawback is turning traffic has to give way to pedestrians and that makes it unsuitable for use over here.lotrjw wrote:Having a pedestrian phase isn't so bad as long as it's only activated by a pedestrian else it should be skipped.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
The HC is clear that pedestrians have righr of way over turning vehicles, it's just that many drivers know best and think they are divine rulers of the road.
If we didn't insist on huge radii at urban junctions pedestrians and cyclists would have a much safer environment without protected stages. We are still designing urban roads purely for cars and it's completely stupid.
If we didn't insist on huge radii at urban junctions pedestrians and cyclists would have a much safer environment without protected stages. We are still designing urban roads purely for cars and it's completely stupid.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
I don't think it's for cars. We have recently had a run-in with the local authority who have slapped down great Double Yellow markings round all the junction radii in a nice urban recent-build cul-de-sac. The justification was the local authority refuse department. Each generation of vehicles they buy is larger than the last, the latest three-axle behemoth was inevitably struggling on turns which have suited everyone else fine. Even the fire engine is smaller and has got here on the odd occasion without problem. There was some intra-town hall discussion, and the yellows went down just to suit this once-weekly totally unsuitable vehicle. There was also some tree pruning done for it because of its height.Bryn666 wrote:If we didn't insist on huge radii at urban junctions pedestrians and cyclists would have a much safer environment without protected stages. We are still designing urban roads purely for cars and it's completely stupid.
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
How is that no use "over here"?Truvelo wrote: The only drawback is turning traffic has to give way to pedestrians and that makes it unsuitable for use over here.
It's also used in a fair whack of mainland Europe too.
If the only reason it couldn't work here is because drivers don't understand that a pedestrian has right of way over them at a junction when they are on the carriageway, then get the driver off the road.
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
This has to be one of - if not the - most disrespected rules of the road.Bryn666 wrote:The HC is clear that pedestrians have right of way over turning vehicles, it's just that many drivers know best and think they are divine rulers of the road.
As a pedestrian I'm quite bolshie and ballsy about it.
As a driver I'm always most respectful of it, to the annoyance and seeming bewilderment of other drivers.
Well said. There are a few glimmers of hope, but otherwise the design approach seems to be firmly stuck in the rut.Bryn666 wrote:If we didn't insist on huge radii at urban junctions pedestrians and cyclists would have a much safer environment without protected stages. We are still designing urban roads purely for cars and it's completely stupid.
Last edited by Mizter T on Wed Sep 27, 2017 21:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Just mow them down. They may not pay road tax, and therefore shouldn't be milling about on something that doesn't belong to them!
- Beardy5632
- Member
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- Location: Forest of Dean
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
These lights in Hereford are the only ones that I know of around here.
British & Irish cities driven in - 48/75
England - 36/52, Scotland - 7/7, Wales - 5/6, NI - 0/5, RoI - 0/5
England - 36/52, Scotland - 7/7, Wales - 5/6, NI - 0/5, RoI - 0/5
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
There's a nice simple set here: https://goo.gl/maps/qrFCRn7i6U92
- Chris Bertram
- Member
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- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Two sets that I can think of near me, both on Ladypool Road, Balsall Heath. One at the junction with Brighton Road, the other at the junction with Highgate Road.
Slightly further away, the set at the junction of Pershore Road and Priory Road, near Edgbaston cricket ground, have neither pedestrian phase nor any green arrows. The set at the Priory Road/Bristol Road junction are nearly as simple, but have a right turn arrow stage from Priory Road (westboound) into Bristol Road (northbound).
Slightly further away, the set at the junction of Pershore Road and Priory Road, near Edgbaston cricket ground, have neither pedestrian phase nor any green arrows. The set at the Priory Road/Bristol Road junction are nearly as simple, but have a right turn arrow stage from Priory Road (westboound) into Bristol Road (northbound).
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- RichardA35
- Committee Member
- Posts: 5705
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
- Location: Dorset
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Isn't it rather telling that the only concession to other modes of transport is a "Cyclists Dismount" sign across one of the arm of the crossroads?mathmo wrote:There's a nice simple set here: https://goo.gl/maps/qrFCRn7i6U92
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, for now, that this is an attempt at humour.shampooefficient wrote:Just mow them down. They may not pay road tax, and therefore shouldn't be milling about on something that doesn't belong to them!
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
While I appreciate that you were (hopefully) mocking the "cyclists don't pay road tax" brigade and did not mean this seriously, this post could well be misinterpreted or at the very least could cause offence. May I please suggest you avoid posts of this nature in future.shampooefficient wrote:Just mow them down. They may not pay road tax, and therefore shouldn't be milling about on something that doesn't belong to them!
As this has already been commented on by Richard, I won't remove it, but I would ask that we now avoid commenting on it and carry on about the original subject in hand.
Owen Rudge
http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://www.owenrudge.net/
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Lancaster without filters, but with possibilities for pedestrians.lotrjw wrote:Having a pedestrian phase isn't so bad as long as it's only activated by a pedestrian else it should be skipped.WHBM wrote:Having to do several trips in a day across London and into the Home Counties, it struck me that we have pretty much seen the end of plain, straightforward, traffic signals at cross roads. no pedestrian phase, no clever split-cycles, no turn arrows, just plain old A-B-A-B.
There was just one I noticed in all that driving. Surprisingly, in the middle of Kensington
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49752 ... 312!8i6656
Last of a dying breed ?
Chepstow without light filters (notwithstanding the presence of a filter lane), but with possibilities for pedestrians.
Likewise, Coleford, Glos.
- Chris Bertram
- Member
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- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Two more plain sets I've remembered, on A449 Penn Road, Wolverhampton, and very close to each other:
1) Junction with Rookery Lane/Stubbs Road (both B4161)
2) Junction with Goldthorn Hill (A4039)/Coalway Road (u/c)
1) Junction with Rookery Lane/Stubbs Road (both B4161)
2) Junction with Goldthorn Hill (A4039)/Coalway Road (u/c)
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Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Theres a set on Picton Road / Rathbone road in Liverpool, it's quite busy most of the day so not sure how it has survived for so long, must be a nightmare for peds.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.39972 ... 6656?dcr=0
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.39972 ... 6656?dcr=0
Re: The end of "plain" traffic signals
Cawood, near York. Traffic levels here don't merit signalisation, but the incredibly tight junction and minimal visibility mean that they are necessary, particularly to allow buses to turn the corner.