A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by Vierwielen » Sun Dec 27, 2020 22:00

How much will the recent announcements of Lithium mining in West Cornwall affect this road upgrade?
I can't see it makes any difference to the Chiverton scheme, as it's already going to be built.
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A303Chris
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by A303Chris »

Latest HE Press Release which states works start in full in January when several side roads are closed for up to the next 12 months as construction work begins in earnest
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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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https://www.keltbray.com/2021/03/02/kel ... rtnership/

Good new and bad news. It's a big contract, but it says
"The scheme has a very short lead-time to commencement, with main construction works starting in early March, and expected to run until mid-2023"

A while ago they were talking about the main phase starting in January. Now they are talking about March. Things seem to be slipping somewhat.
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crowntown100
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by crowntown100 »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:24 https://www.keltbray.com/2021/03/02/kel ... rtnership/

Good new and bad news. It's a big contract, but it says
"The scheme has a very short lead-time to commencement, with main construction works starting in early March, and expected to run until mid-2023"

A while ago they were talking about the main phase starting in January. Now they are talking about March. Things seem to be slipping somewhat.
I drove through Chiverton Cross last week for work and they've already started site clearance and marking out the boundaries for the new junction there. Considering the delays that there were (and I assume are still occuring) due to Covid, a couple of months delay to start the main phase isn't going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At least it's actually being built!
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Paul237
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Paul237 »

crowntown100 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 15:36
RichardEvans67 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:24 https://www.keltbray.com/2021/03/02/kel ... rtnership/

Good new and bad news. It's a big contract, but it says
"The scheme has a very short lead-time to commencement, with main construction works starting in early March, and expected to run until mid-2023"

A while ago they were talking about the main phase starting in January. Now they are talking about March. Things seem to be slipping somewhat.
I drove through Chiverton Cross last week for work and they've already started site clearance and marking out the boundaries for the new junction there. Considering the delays that there were (and I assume are still occuring) due to Covid, a couple of months delay to start the main phase isn't going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At least it's actually being built!
Agreed, it'll be great when that section is finally complete. Dual carriageway from Exeter to Camborne. It's been a long time coming.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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Are we looking at reducing the Camborne-M5 journey by 15 minutes when this new section opens?

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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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Although I've not had the pleasure of visiting what I understand Is a stunning part of England ( I'm on the peninsula that leaves the A75 at ' Newton Stewart , great views of the Irish sea ) but a long haul to go visit these schemes and area. Anyway I digress..

I was wondering how many more are needed to finish the D2 all the way to Penzance and make the start/end as ' free flow ' and painless as possible ?
By that I'm referring to making sure that drivers are not causing more congestion as it reaches the end , I've only seen maps and I recall seeing ( from memory ) a few roads meeting the A30 at its end .

Also going forward , how much provision has been made with a view to a future widening , eg D3 , I thought when the Bodmin moor section was done it looked like the bridges had the width to allow either a hard shoulder or Third lane .

And once all dualled if there is such provision, would an expressway /meat standard , be achievable , I only ask as I've read about the huge traffic jams .

I'd hope that after ( like the A1(M) ) in Yorkshire ( still to be fully finished ) , that the new route as built will ease the jams , but with provision for the future .
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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When this scheme is complete there will be continuous DC from the M5 to Camborne and continuous mainline to Hayle. After the Hayle bypass it’s unimproved SC to Penzance.

However, not all of the DC is HQDC, with at-grade crossings and gaps between Launceston and Bodmin and some east of Okehampton. Many have been closed over the years but as things stand the route isn’t up to expressway standards (whatever that is....)

I can’t see D3 ever being required on the A30 in Cornwall (save for the small existing section e/b at Fraddon but this is in effect just a crawler lane).
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BF2142
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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mehere wrote:Although I've not had the pleasure of visiting what I understand Is a stunning part of England ( I'm on the peninsula that leaves the A75 at ' Newton Stewart , great views of the Irish sea ) but a long haul to go visit these schemes and area. Anyway I digress..

I was wondering how many more are needed to finish the D2 all the way to Penzance and make the start/end as ' free flow ' and painless as possible ?
By that I'm referring to making sure that drivers are not causing more congestion as it reaches the end , I've only seen maps and I recall seeing ( from memory ) a few roads meeting the A30 at its end .

Also going forward , how much provision has been made with a view to a future widening , eg D3 , I thought when the Bodmin moor section was done it looked like the bridges had the width to allow either a hard shoulder or Third lane .

And once all dualled if there is such provision, would an expressway /meat standard , be achievable , I only ask as I've read about the huge traffic jams .

I'd hope that after ( like the A1(M) ) in Yorkshire ( still to be fully finished ) , that the new route as built will ease the jams , but with provision for the future .
So the last unimproved section is a 4 mile single lane part between Long Rock and Hayle. This meets the A3074 (St Ives) West of Hayle.

The A30 Hayle bypass has a variable layout, switching between S1+2 and S4. This section runs under a railway viaduct at its eastern end.

The section from Hayle to Camborne was built in a similar configuration to the Hayle bypass the bridges are built tightly to the road and would need to be rebuilt to widen the road.

I couldn't speak to the ability to widen other sections of the A30. From memory, the Camborne-A390 section would likely be widenable online.





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BF2142
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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A320Driver wrote:When this scheme is complete there will be continuous DC from the M5 to Camborne and continuous mainline to Hayle. After the Hayle bypass it’s unimproved SC to Penzance.

However, not all of the DC is HQDC, with at-grade crossings and gaps between Launceston and Bodmin and some east of Okehampton. Many have been closed over the years but as things stand the route isn’t up to expressway standards (whatever that is....)

I can’t see D3 ever being required on the A30 in Cornwall (save for the small existing section e/b at Fraddon but this is in effect just a crawler lane).
Once the new section opens it would be possible to apply slow vehicle/NMU restrictions between Camborne and A38 exit at Bodmin.

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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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BF2142 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:35 Once the new section opens it would be possible to apply slow vehicle/NMU restrictions between Camborne and A38 exit at Bodmin.

That would affect a lot of tractors that currently use the A30 west of Chiverton Cross.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by DavidBrown »

fchd wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 20:56 That would affect a lot of tractors that currently use the A30 west of Chiverton Cross.
And so it should. Sorry, but tractors have absolutely no place on a high speed road like the A30, especially when the old A30 runs immediately parallel providing all the access they could ever need.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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DavidBrown wrote:
fchd wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 20:56 That would affect a lot of tractors that currently use the A30 west of Chiverton Cross.
And so it should. Sorry, but tractors have absolutely no place on a high speed road like the A30, especially when the old A30 runs immediately parallel providing all the access they could ever need.
The old A30 is just fine for tractors and cyclists.

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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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Post by mehere » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:15

I was wondering how many more are needed to finish the D2 all the way to Penzance and make the start/end as ' free flow ' and painless as possible ?
Well the Conner Down and Hale bypasses would be expensive to upgrade to D2. They have many overbridges that were only built for single carriageway. Most of them would need to be replaced, and it would be very hard to justify the expense of doing that. In an ideal world I'd like to see it done, but in the real world I have doubts about whether it would ever happen.

The section from Hayle to Penzance could really do with a new route bypassing the villages. Trouble is if you made that D2 without doing the same to Conner Downs and Hayle, you would probably turn then into bottlenecks. I think a sensible approach would be to build this initially as GSJ single carriageway, but with all the bridges etc, suitable for D2, so it can be upgraded later if the Conner Down/Hayle section ever gets upgraded. Also perhaps if the Hayle to Penzance section was improved, that might help stop queues backing up along the Hayle bypass.
Also going forward , how much provision has been made with a view to a future widening , eg D3 , I thought when the Bodmin moor section was done it looked like the bridges had the width to allow either a hard shoulder or Third lane .
I noticed the Temple and Cardingham bridges seemed to be suitable for D3. However at Preze Cross, they had to squeeze into a narrow corridor, so the bridge was built only wide enough for D2. However since it has no central peer, it could perhaps be used for just one carriageway, and the other carriageway diverted to the other side of a reservoir next to the road. That would seem rather expensive though, so I think congestion would have to be very bad to justify it.
And once all dualled if there is such provision, would an expressway /meat standard , be achievable , I only ask as I've read about the huge traffic jams .

I'd hope that after ( like the A1(M) ) in Yorkshire ( still to be fully finished ) , that the new route as built will ease the jams , but with provision for the future .
The standard of this part of the A30 is quite variable. I think many things would need to be improved for expressway standard. I don't think generally there is enough money allocated to the A30 to do things like this. They sill haven't got around to bypassing the villages between Hayle and Penzance. There would probably be good local support for this, but finding the money is another matter.

I'd also mention that upgrading the A1 must be a much higher priority than upgrading this part of the A30. The A30 has improved a great deal since I went on holiday to Cornwall as a boy, but it has taken decades to get the route improved, and it will probably always take a long time to get further improvements.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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RichardEvans67 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 09:25 Well the Conner Down and Hale bypasses would be expensive to upgrade to D2. They have many overbridges that were only built for single carriageway. Most of them would need to be replaced, and it would be very hard to justify the expense of doing that. In an ideal world I'd like to see it done, but in the real world I have doubts about whether it would ever happen.
There aren't actually that many, only two on the Connor Downs bypass and four on the Hayle bypass (there are a couple more which already have four lanes underneath). That said, a bypass for Crowlas is probably all that is likely to happen in the medium term once the section to Chiverton Cross is finished, as getting traffic to St Erth a little bit quicker doesn't really achieve much except move the queues
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IAN
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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It would be nice to have the road improved all the way to Penzance but is the reality that congestion is only really an issue on July and August weekends during the peak holiday season? Perhaps any local Sabristi could contradict this theory.

I've been to Cornwall on a Saturday in May and September and not encountered any problems other than minor queuing, with the total delay between Hayle and Penzance probably no more than 10 minutes.

Even if the A30 to Penzance was upgraded there would be little that could be done to stop queues of traffic into Carbis Bay and St Ives via the A3074. The money for any further A30 upgrades would probably be better spent elsewhere.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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IAN wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 16:03 It would be nice to have the road improved all the way to Penzance but is the reality that congestion is only really an issue on July and August weekends during the peak holiday season? Perhaps any local Sabristi could contradict this theory.

I've been to Cornwall on a Saturday in May and September and not encountered any problems other than minor queuing, with the total delay between Hayle and Penzance probably no more than 10 minutes.

Even if the A30 to Penzance was upgraded there would be little that could be done to stop queues of traffic into Carbis Bay and St Ives via the A3074. The money for any further A30 upgrades would probably be better spent elsewhere.
I agree, as you travel west, more and more traffic turns off to the various destinations, so improving junctions for traffic turning off would help more than a D2 expressway which ends suddenly in Penzance. The A38, 390 and A391 all have sections where any available money is better spent as well.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by DavidBrown »

The biggest benefit of improving the rest of the A30 would be for the residents of Crowlas and Canon's Town, who I'm sure would like to see their villages bypassed. But in terms of congestion and value for money, yes there's no doubt that this last section of the A30 is very far down the priority list.
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crowntown100
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by crowntown100 »

IAN wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 16:03 It would be nice to have the road improved all the way to Penzance but is the reality that congestion is only really an issue on July and August weekends during the peak holiday season? Perhaps any local Sabristi could contradict this theory.

I've been to Cornwall on a Saturday in May and September and not encountered any problems other than minor queuing, with the total delay between Hayle and Penzance probably no more than 10 minutes.
You called? :D

Like most built up single carriageway sections through villages that are wedged between sections of otherwise improved roads (to the west is dual carriageway, the east WS2 and S2/1) it does become a bottleneck at peak times, which for Cornwall is rush hour. Most of the rest of the road is fast and flows well except for here, which varies from stop-start to a slow-flow most of the day (admittedly I only have my experience of this and no real evidence). In my experience, 15 minutes for that 4 miles isn't out of the question at peak times, but that sort of speed would be considered good in the cities! However, if it was dualled, 4 minutes for those 4 minutes really isn't out of the question.

It's likely to be high up on Cornwall Council's agenda once Camelford has been bypassed and they've finished the new St Austell - A30 link road (aka A391 Bugle Bypass), but for the time being it can stay as it is as economically those other schemes are more important to the county, and they fall under CC's remit, and the A38 poses more of a safety risk.

Sadly, though, it does put some pressure on businesses in Penzance, who would consider moving away from the area further east in the County (Hayle/Camborne/Redruth area) as that last 4 miles of A30 are sufficiently inconvenient that relocating is a serious consideration.
IAN wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 16:03Even if the A30 to Penzance was upgraded there would be little that could be done to stop queues of traffic into Carbis Bay and St Ives via the A3074. The money for any further A30 upgrades would probably be better spent elsewhere.
Normally, the Park and Ride (which has recently moved to a much upgraded St Erth Station) is a better option for St Ives/Carbis Bay for tourists. Parking in either village is awful!
RichardEvans67 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 09:25 I noticed the Temple and Cardingham bridges seemed to be suitable for D3.
This was so that the road didn't have to be realigned underneath it which adds to the costs, so providing a wider bridge is cheaper. Note that the only bridge built over a previously single carriageway section was just wide enough to fit the dual carriageway; the other two sit at the edges of the scheme and the road was already dual carriageway underneath, although the dualling ended either side of where those bridges now stand. A similar arrangement was built on the A1 at Elkesley when they built the GSJ; in order to avoid realigning the road they built a much wider bridge.
A320Driver wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:23 I can’t see D3 ever being required on the A30 in Cornwall (save for the small existing section e/b at Fraddon but this is in effect just a crawler lane).
The only place that it could happen is along the Blackwater bypass (Chiverton Cross to Scorrier), or possibly even as far as Avers Roundabout. That was reaching around 40k AADT pre-Covid, so any return to those kinds of traffic levels, combined with an increase in traffic once Chiverton Cross to Carland Cross is built and feeds into this section, could push this into widening territory, but it's unlikely due to the space constraints at the Scorrier end where it runs alongside the railway unless they were to get creative with retaining walls, and there are much longer stretches of D2 with comfortably more than those traffic levels that need that investment first.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Paul237 »

Thanks for your detailed reply above crowntown! Your local knowledge is always useful. :)

Am I right in thinking that the A30 between Hayle and Long Rock is the original route? It feels very 'old school' - i.e. SC that runs through villages and towns with no bypasses. My late father always used to holiday in West Cornwall as a child and he used to tell me about the long journeys from the Midlands to Cornwall in the 1950s/1960s. I like to think his route for that last stretch would have been the same as it still is today.
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