A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
RichardEvans67
Member
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:26
Location: Surrey

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

Official DfT press release with construction due to start later this year and end in 2023.

The way it says last single dual carriageway section between the M5 and Cambourne, the likelihood of further upgrades to DC past Cambourne in my opinion looks slim.
I wouldn't read much into that. When Temple was going to be built, they said it was the last single carriageway before Carland Cross. I think it's just a statement about now. What is in the future is another matter. We don't really know whether there will be any further improvements further west, I wish they would hurry up with RIS2.
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31475
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by roadtester »

A303Chris wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 08:56 No it was due to TA 43/84 Highway Link Design coming out which gave preference to WS2 and SC2 over DC's. That's is why a whole raft of bypasses in the late 80s early 90s were Single carriageway including

Illminster
Newark
Lincoln
Dorchester (Dorset and Oxfordshire)
Bridport
Axminster
Thetford
North Devon Link Road
Darlington

In the early 90s TA 43/84 was updated to become TD 9-93 Highway Link Design which recognised that DC's were probably better.
Northleach on the A40 was another one.
Electrophorus Electricus

Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
roadphotos
Member
Posts: 1077
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 19:28

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by roadphotos »

If it were up to me I would have a single carriageway flyover built for the A30 at the Loggans Moor Roundabout at the same time as the Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross Scheme is constructed. There must be room for it and it would help sort out the queues leading up to this junction from Camborne which can only get worse once the Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross A30 dualling scheme is completed. As has been mentioned it's often quicker to leave the A30 at the Camborne (west) junction and take the old A30 through Connor Downs to reach the Loggans Moor Roundabout as there are no queues from this direction. I would then have a plan for a roundabout free road to link up to the Long Rock By-Pass
DavidBrown
Member
Posts: 8398
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 00:35

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by DavidBrown »

roadphotos wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 23:28 If it were up to me I would have a single carriageway flyover built for the A30 at the Loggans Moor Roundabout at the same time as the Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross Scheme is constructed. There must be room for it and it...
Unfortunately not thanks to West Cornwall Retail Park being basically taking all the space needed right up to the current highway boundary (quite why Hayle of all places needed an out of town retail park, I don't know...). The problem with how tightly packed the area around Loggans Moor is is that even a hamburger arrangement becomes extremely difficult to pull off. For a full GSJ, single or dual flyover, you'd also probably have to relocate Hayle RFC, and potentially the McDonalds, Travelodge, Premier Inn, Shell station and Brewers Fayre. Which makes it a ridiculously expensive scheme for a GSJ when there's another roundabout just a few miles further west which all the traffic will just queue up at instead.
User avatar
IAN
Member
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 19:07

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by IAN »

I presume that any future decision about improving the remaining S2+1/S2 sections would primarily depend on safety issues rather than inconvenience due to queuing. The Chiverton Cross roundabout, in particular, is prone to accidents. 'Cornwall Live' typically reports an incident every few days e.g

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ar-3776581

When the new scheme is opened there's no doubt queuing will become more severe at the end of the D2 west of Camborne and any significant deterioration in the safety record could perhaps change things. On the other hand traffic for Truro, Falmouth, Helston and the Lizard peninsula will be gone. It would be great to funnel off the St Ives traffic with an S2 flyover as previously suggested and then Penzance would be the only significant destination left.

Ian (M5 Driver)
AKA M5 Driver
BF2142
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 13:42
Location: Essex

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by BF2142 »

DavidBrown wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 08:56
roadphotos wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 23:28 If it were up to me I would have a single carriageway flyover built for the A30 at the Loggans Moor Roundabout at the same time as the Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross Scheme is constructed. There must be room for it and it...
Unfortunately not thanks to West Cornwall Retail Park being basically taking all the space needed right up to the current highway boundary (quite why Hayle of all places needed an out of town retail park, I don't know...). The problem with how tightly packed the area around Loggans Moor is is that even a hamburger arrangement becomes extremely difficult to pull off. For a full GSJ, single or dual flyover, you'd also probably have to relocate Hayle RFC, and potentially the McDonalds, Travelodge, Premier Inn, Shell station and Brewers Fayre. Which makes it a ridiculously expensive scheme for a GSJ when there's another roundabout just a few miles further west which all the traffic will just queue up at instead.
The only feasible solution would be to reroute this section further south to join in with a widened Hayle bypass. The section between Camborne and Hayle could be easily widened. It has, iirc, only three overbridges and runs through a rural area.
roadphotos
Member
Posts: 1077
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 19:28

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by roadphotos »

Why can't they get rid of the Loggans Moor Roundabout completely and have a new junction at the first bridge over the A30 east of there towards Camborne. I'm sure the first bridge isn't that far east of the existing roundabout. My view is that when a road improvement is done the effects further down the road and on other roads should be taken into account at the same time otherwise more often than not your just moving the problems to somewhere else.
roadphotos
Member
Posts: 1077
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 19:28

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by roadphotos »

roadphotos wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 14:06 Why can't they get rid of the Loggans Moor Roundabout completely and have a new junction at the first bridge over the A30 east of there towards Camborne. I'm sure the first bridge isn't that far east of the existing roundabout. My view is that when a road improvement is done the effects further down the road and on other roads should be taken into account at the same time otherwise more often than not your just moving the problems to somewhere else. The thing about the Loggans Moor Roundabout is when your sitting in queueing traffic there your only a stone's throw from your destination, the retail park just off the junction doesn't help but that's the same with a lot of other roundabouts where similar things have been added.
RichardEvans67
Member
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:26
Location: Surrey

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

The only feasible solution would be to reroute this section further south to join in with a widened Hayle bypass.
I don't think you could justify widening the Hayle Bypass, at least not yet. Pretty much all the bridges are built to the current width of the road, so you would have to justify a big cost.

I think the main safety issue is long queues on the bypass, which tempts people to U-Turn. I don't think you can solve that problem without fixing things further west. So I would think the 1st thing would be a grade separated route from the Hayle Bypass to Longrock.

Ideally I'd like to see D2 with GSJ all the way to Penzance, but I think that's more of an aspiration than a reality.
User avatar
Norfolktolancashire
Member
Posts: 1185
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 22:34
Location: Cornwall

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

c2R wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 09:59
A303Chris wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 09:09 Official DfT press release with construction due to start later this year and end in 2023.

The way it says last single dual carriageway section between the M5 and Cambourne, the likelihood of further upgrades to DC past Cambourne in my opinion looks slim.

I know Crowlas can be a slog, but i'm sure a SC bypass would cope. I have never been held up at the lane drop at Cambourne except on summer Friday afternoons and Saturdays, rest of the time its fine.

However how it copes when its the end of a 100 mile HQDC from the M5 when all the other bottlenecks, Goss Moor and Bodmin Moor have been removed is another story. Never queued at Carland Cross but as soon as Bodmin Moor was dualled I have now. Wasn't a problem when Goss Moor was dualled however.
I suppose that's it, though - every town that's bypassed improves the traffic flow and makes life better for the people living in the bypassed settlements, while traffic is dissapated the further south west as you travel along, onto other feeder routes. Other than a bypass of Crowlas, which I'm sure single carriageway would be fine, there's probably little to be gained in either BCR or future development potential in furthering the HQDC to Penzance, or Land's End. In terms of the region itself, an improvement between Bodmin and Plymouth would probably be the next project that I'd like to see.
Agreed, the A38 S2 between Bodmin and Saltash (apart from the D2 near Liskeard) is a shocker in the poor sight lines and relatively steep inclines.
User avatar
StockburyRoundabout
Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 19:06
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by StockburyRoundabout »

Norfolktolancashire wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 22:08
c2R wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 09:59
A303Chris wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 09:09 Official DfT press release with construction due to start later this year and end in 2023.

The way it says last single dual carriageway section between the M5 and Cambourne, the likelihood of further upgrades to DC past Cambourne in my opinion looks slim.

I know Crowlas can be a slog, but i'm sure a SC bypass would cope. I have never been held up at the lane drop at Cambourne except on summer Friday afternoons and Saturdays, rest of the time its fine.

However how it copes when its the end of a 100 mile HQDC from the M5 when all the other bottlenecks, Goss Moor and Bodmin Moor have been removed is another story. Never queued at Carland Cross but as soon as Bodmin Moor was dualled I have now. Wasn't a problem when Goss Moor was dualled however.
I suppose that's it, though - every town that's bypassed improves the traffic flow and makes life better for the people living in the bypassed settlements, while traffic is dissapated the further south west as you travel along, onto other feeder routes. Other than a bypass of Crowlas, which I'm sure single carriageway would be fine, there's probably little to be gained in either BCR or future development potential in furthering the HQDC to Penzance, or Land's End. In terms of the region itself, an improvement between Bodmin and Plymouth would probably be the next project that I'd like to see.
Agreed, the A38 S2 between Bodmin and Saltash (apart from the D2 near Liskeard) is a shocker in the poor sight lines and relatively steep inclines.
There was a petition to make the A38 D2 from Carkeel Roundabout (Saltash) to Carminnow Cross (Bodmin). This would of course utilise the existing Liskeard and Dobwalls bypasses.

There are complications with the sharp right turn at Terulefoot Roundabout so a new GSJ would probably need to be built northeast of the existing roundabout for access. Landrake, Tideford and Notter would be bypassed.

That’s before even thinking about dualling through the Glynn Valley; it will be extremely difficult (or impossible) so may require a rerouting for a new D2 to be built.
Now with added Grade Separation!
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Berk »

I think we’ve established before, the only route left for an A38 widening would be to reroute the A38 along the A390 until it gets close to Bodmin Parkway station.

You should be able to switch back to online widening after that.
User avatar
SouthWest Philip
Member
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 19:35
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by SouthWest Philip »

Berk wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 21:55 I think we’ve established before, the only route left for an A38 widening would be to reroute the A38 along the A390 until it gets close to Bodmin Parkway station.

You should be able to switch back to online widening after that.
Yes, looking at the map it would probably be most viable route but might require a high level viaduct to cross the valley to the west of Bodmin Parkway station. Could be a problem avoiding National Trust land around Lanhydrock.
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Berk »

I don’t know about west. I was thinking more east, hopefully avoiding NT land.
User avatar
crowntown100
Member
Posts: 738
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 21:13
Location: Helston, Cornwall

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by crowntown100 »

Berk wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 22:08 I don’t know about west. I was thinking more east, hopefully avoiding NT land.
The Cornish Archives in Redruth have a copy of the consultation brochure when they were looking at this scheme in the 90's. From memory, I think it went south and west of the NT land to meet a new junction on the A30 between Innis Downs and Carminnow Cross junctions. Otherwise, it broadly followed the A390 north of the Taphouse's. I wanted to get a copy but they were a bit funny about me taking a copy.

BGS also have the borehole records that show the planned route, albeit not quite as I can remember it from the brochure. That version follows the A390 as far as West Taphouse, cutting across to the A38 near Bodmin Parkway and broadly follows the existing road to a new junction just south of Carminnow Cross.
StockburyRoundabout wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 21:47There was a petition to make the A38 D2 from Carkeel Roundabout (Saltash) to Carminnow Cross (Bodmin). This would of course utilise the existing Liskeard and Dobwalls bypasses.
Again, BGS shows several potential routes between Trerulefoot (well, where the Dual Carriageway ends just north of it) and Carkeel.
Berk wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 20:10I thought the scheme was conceived as a D2, but built as an S2 after the change of government in 79?? It opened in 1984, I believe. A victim of cutbacks.
I feel like you've been reading the A30 history pages on the wiki! :wink: That's my understanding of it, and found nothing to the contrary. The Camborne-Redruth Bypass was built with the extension in mind and so was future-proofed with the bridge at Treswithian (Camborne (West)) in place ready for "Polstrong - St Erth" to go ahead as a dual carriageway. Obviously it was watered down to the road we have today, which has lasted almost 40 years now without too much fuss (and if any improvement does come about, we'll be waiting another 5 years for that I would expect so it will have seen out 40 years of use, if not more).

I agree with some of the previous comments, though. For West Cornwall, Crowlas is the priority, then Hayle/Connor Downs Bypass, but if I was Highways England then I would be looking at the A38.

I will be interested to see how it will cope when the new road is built, though. However, that's 3 years away at least!
Harry
User avatar
A303Chris
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 3587
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 14:01
Location: Reading

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by A303Chris »

crowntown100 wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 13:09 I will be interested to see how it will cope when the new road is built, though. However, that's 3 years away at least!
What I would like to see is how much the west bound speed camera makes just after the DC ends at Treswithian when Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross is completed. 60mph feels slow after 9 miles of DC what's it going to be like after 100 miles of DC from the M5, or in my case 270 miles of M4/M5/A30 from J10 of the M4. Can see that camera racking it in.
The M25 - The road to nowhere
User avatar
IAN
Member
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 19:07

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by IAN »

A303Chris wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 13:37
crowntown100 wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 13:09 I will be interested to see how it will cope when the new road is built, though. However, that's 3 years away at least!
What I would like to see is how much the west bound speed camera makes just after the DC ends at Treswithian when Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross is completed. 60mph feels slow after 9 miles of DC what's it going to be like after 100 miles of DC from the M5, or in my case 270 miles of M4/M5/A30 from J10 of the M4. Can see that camera racking it in.
Personally I find that a change from D2 to S2 is a memory trigger to adjust my speed. More challenging can be speed reductions to 50/60 on rural D2 roads due to hazards etc.

Ian (M5 Driver)
AKA M5 Driver
User avatar
Truvelo
Member
Posts: 17467
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 21:10
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Truvelo »

crowntown100 wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 13:09 The Cornish Archives in Redruth have a copy of the consultation brochure when they were looking at this scheme in the 90's. From memory, I think it went south and west of the NT land to meet a new junction on the A30 between Innis Downs and Carminnow Cross junctions. Otherwise, it broadly followed the A390 north of the Taphouse's. I wanted to get a copy but they were a bit funny about me taking a copy.
That's unfortunate because all the archives I've been to allow you to use a camera or take photocopies. Naturally there is a charge for this - usually £5 to £10 per day to take as many photos as you like or 20p to £1 per sheet for A4 photocopy.

It would be interesting to see what the road would have looked like. As it appears to be a consultation brochure and not a preferred scheme announcement I assume the map doesn't go as far as showing junction layouts. The Cornwall library catalogue shows several items for Bodmin-Liskeard so there may be detailed plans lurking about somewhere. Unfortunately it's something I will never get a chance to look at as it's too far out my way so you're on your own on this, but if you get a chance there seems to be lots of stuff on A30, A38 and A39 improvements. A39 was still trunk in the early 90s.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
RichardEvans67
Member
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:26
Location: Surrey

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... 0-upgrade/

Looks like they now have a main contractor, so hopefully work will start before long.
Hiraeth
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 21:28

Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Hiraeth »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 09:06 https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... 0-upgrade/

Looks like they now have a main contractor, so hopefully work will start before long.
I'd be surprised if this starts in Spring - never good starting during bird nesting season...
Post Reply