A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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DavidBrown
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by DavidBrown »

BF2142 wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:41Is it likely that the A30 will become one of the first expressway-designated routes?
In addition to what has already been said about at-grade junctions, I think the bigger long-term reason to the answer being 'no' is that it very much looks like Expressways are dead before they were even born. If the A14 upgrade can't have an (M), the A30 doesn't stand a chance.
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jackal
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by jackal »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 14:29
A303Chris wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 14:04
BF2142 wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:41 When this section is built, there will be a continuous DC from Camborne to the M5 at Exeter. Is it likely that the A30 will become one of the first expressway-designated routes?
Unlikely. Unlike the A38 Devon Expressway from he end of the M5 to the Tamar Bridge there are still old 1960/70/80's at grade junctions along the A30 specifically between Exeter and Okehampton and over Bodmin Moor from Launceston to Bodmin.

You can not have an expressway with these junctions.
There is a single at grade junction between the M5 at Exeter and the A395 west of Launceston. This is the Pathfinder Village junction which really should have been sorted years ago, especially as there is an over bridge nearby. The central gap was closed for a couple of years a few years back, as part of a trial, but extraordinarily they reopened it again.
Extraordinary indeed. This report mentions some of the (seemingly quite minor) concerns with the GSJ: https://democracy.devon.gov.uk/Data/Cab ... -31-HQ.pdf
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Herned »

jackal wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 15:27 Extraordinary indeed. This report mentions some of the (seemingly quite minor) concerns with the GSJ: https://democracy.devon.gov.uk/Data/Cab ... -31-HQ.pdf
It had it's own HA webpage at one point... very strange that junction exists at all, given the rest of the section which opened with the M5 is very high standard
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jackal
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by jackal »

The report mentions that the bridge was built with the slips in mind, which rather raises the question of why they weren't built with it. It also mentions that a similar scheme was proposed in 1992, so the slips have been shot down at least three times.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by A320Driver »

A303Chris wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 14:06
A320Driver wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 13:39 Whilst the A30 mainline will be continuous from M5 to Hayle, there still remain I think two at-grade junctions which would need dealing with.
The two at grade junctions are on single carriageway sections , so the A30 will be continuous DC to Cambourne , then SC for three miles to Hayle. It is very unlikely that these roundabouts will be grade separated, as apart from summer Friday and Saturday afternoons in my experience they flow well.
The roundabouts at Carland and Chiverton will go with the imminent improvement, what SC sections do you refer to?

As mentioned just previously, along with Pathfinder there are 2 or 3 gaps west of Launceston which I had forgotten about.
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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

Talking of pathfinder. As far as I can see from Google Earth, the exiting overbridge looks rather narrow. So would it really be suitable to use it as part of a GSJ ?

Perhaps they could provide a separate foot bridge parallel to it, so that they can then widen the road on the existing bridge.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by SteveA30 »

This the bridge east of Pathfinder. In the last consultation, many locals put this forward as the new junction flyover. Wide enough as the tractor shows even with the pavements, which are only on the bridge. They could be narrowed though. As the only user, they would still meet my needs. :wink:
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A303Chris
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by A303Chris »

A320Driver wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 22:57
A303Chris wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 14:06
A320Driver wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 13:39 Whilst the A30 mainline will be continuous from M5 to Hayle, there still remain I think two at-grade junctions which would need dealing with.
The two at grade junctions are on single carriageway sections , so the A30 will be continuous DC to Cambourne , then SC for three miles to Hayle. It is very unlikely that these roundabouts will be grade separated, as apart from summer Friday and Saturday afternoons in my experience they flow well.
The roundabouts at Carland and Chiverton will go with the imminent improvement, what SC sections do you refer to?

As mentioned just previously, along with Pathfinder there are 2 or 3 gaps west of Launceston which I had forgotten about.
Sorry if I missed understood you but I was referring to the 1980's SC from Cambourne to St Erth, which I always assume is the end of the Hayle / Connors Down improvement. So when you said continous to Hayle I was referring to the Loggans Moor and St Erth roundabouts.

However looking forward in 3 years time to my non stop 273 mile continuous trip from Loggans Moor to the Lodden Bridge junction on the A329(M)
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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by SteveA30 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:33

This the bridge east of Pathfinder. In the last consultation, many locals put this forward as the new junction flyover. Wide enough as the tractor shows even with the pavements, which are only on the bridge. They could be narrowed though. As the only user, they would still meet my needs. :wink:
Perhaps this is a matter of opinion, and the wink makes me thing you might not be completely serious.

Anyway, if you picture two such tractors, going in opposite directions, having to pass each other, then I think that would look rather too tight. So I think if they wanted to use this bridge for two way traffic, as part of a GSJ, they would have to look seriously at widening the roadway.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by DavidBrown » Wed Aug 26, 2020 14:42

BF2142 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:41

If the A14 upgrade can't have an (M), the A30 doesn't stand a chance.
As I understand it, it requires an act of parliament for a road get motorway status. The new part of the A14 was being built when most of Parliamentary time was being taken up by BrExit. So it became a choice of either delay the whole thing to wait for parliament, or continue without motorway status. Understandably they took the latter option.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by BF2142 »

It's a pity that the HE can't stump up the cash to widen the very short section from the Loggan's Moor r'about to Camborne. What would be a ballpark figure for an online widening of approx. 4 miles of fairly modern, rural, S4/S2+1 incl replacement of the four bridges?
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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SteveA30 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:33 This the bridge east of Pathfinder. In the last consultation, many locals put this forward as the new junction flyover.
This is precisely what the Highways Agency proposed in 2003 but it was rejected by locals. Hence the scheme was developed to remove that element.
RichardEvans67 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 08:53 Talking of pathfinder. As far as I can see from Google Earth, the exiting overbridge looks rather narrow. So would it really be suitable to use it as part of a GSJ
The 2003 proposals would have widened the bridge by 1m.
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jackal
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

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BF2142 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 13:51 It's a pity that the HE can't stump up the cash to widen the very short section from the Loggan's Moor r'about to Camborne. What would be a ballpark figure for an online widening of approx. 4 miles of fairly modern, rural, S4/S2+1 incl replacement of the four bridges?
£100m-£200m. The problem with widening a basically grade separated S2+1 like this is that you're paying most of the cost of full widening, including bridge replacements, but only getting one extra lane of capacity and no junction improvements. By contrast, a typical widening of an S2 to D2 gets you two extra lanes (one in each direction) and removes numerous at-grade junctions. So I think the former tends to be less cost effective and will be the last bit of a route that gets improved. See also the A303 Ilminster Bypass.
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IAN
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by IAN »

jackal wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 15:41
BF2142 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 13:51 It's a pity that the HE can't stump up the cash to widen the very short section from the Loggan's Moor r'about to Camborne. What would be a ballpark figure for an online widening of approx. 4 miles of fairly modern, rural, S4/S2+1 incl replacement of the four bridges?
£100m-£200m. The problem with widening a basically grade separated S2+1 like this is that you're paying most of the cost of full widening, including bridge replacements, but only getting one extra lane of capacity and no junction improvements. By contrast, a typical widening of an S2 to D2 gets you two extra lanes (one in each direction) and removes numerous at-grade junctions. So I think the former tends to be less cost effective and will be the last bit of a route that gets improved. See also the A303 Ilminster Bypass.
All this would do would be to allow traffic to arrive at a queue at the roundabout a little more quickly. The scheme would only be of benefit if both the Hayle roundabouts were GSJd and also including a free flow exit for St Ives traffic.

Then all you've got to do is by pass St Erth With D2, GSJ the 2 roundabouts on the Long Rock bypass and the others leading into Penznace up to and including the A3071 junction and all the problems will be solved. (All to be completed within 50 years perhaps!)
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RichardEvans67
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

Perhaps they need to built it all grade separated S1 for now (I mean West of Camborne :wink: ). (or is it called S2). That would at least be a big improvement for now. It would be wise to build the over bridges wide enough for D2, incase the route can upgraded in the future.

The Crowlas section could at least ease the queuing on the Hale Bypass towards St. Erth, and the traffic problems in the villages between St. Erth and Longrock.

Some sort of flyover at Logings Moor would also be helpful. It would have to be S1 for now, but perhaps position it so that another could be built along side it, if they ever want to upgrade to D2.

That could make things at least tolerable for many years, and if traffic levels increase in the future, it may become possible to justify dueling.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by A320Driver »

Here’s my attempt at improving the last section of S2 on the A30. I reckon this will be promoted by HE within the next 10 years. I also agree with Jackal, that the Camborne - Hayle section will be low priority given the BCR will be low.
68B93620-7452-4A45-B657-68B8E2B64D25.jpeg
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BicesterRob
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by BicesterRob »

Surely I can't be the only one thinking the following:
The Connor Downs and Hayle bypasses are wide single carriageway, so you could fit two lanes in one direction with one in the opposite direction along their entire length. There's is also room for a crawler lane in the direction with one lane on the short sections where it widens to S2+2.
Why on earth don't they re-paint the markings so you have two lanes Westbound (where traffic will after 2023 come from continuous dual carriageway or motorway from the North of England). Have one lane eastbound where all traffic joins from single carriageways anyway, widening to a crawler lane in the middle of each section where it is wide enough to accommodate that second lane eastbound. It would reduce the queues westbound and with a lot of traffic heading off at Hayle and to St. Ives, surely it would be better than the current layout? Any regular commuters along this section prefer to see two lanes west and one east along the whole wide sections?
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by fchd »

Road closed on this stretch for 4 hours from 5:30 to 9:30pm this evening, all traffic westbound directed through Zelah, eastbound taken off at Carland Cross and presumably diverted all the way down to and through Truro.

Cornwall Air Ambulance on scene, apparently a collision between a motorcyle and a tractor of which there were plenty out and about today
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by BicesterRob » Sun Aug 30, 2020 13:57

Why on earth don't they re-paint the markings so you have two lanes Westbound
I haven't actually been there recently, but isn't there a pretty big hill ?
The 2 lanes east bound is be because one is a crawler lane.

If you made it only one lane Eastbound, then the traffic could frequently crawl along behind large vehicles being slow up the hill, with no easy way to overtake them.

Edit :
Just had a look on Google Earth, and interestingly, after it narrows to S2+1 for the hill, it then widens again to S4 for the next bridge. I don't think it would be mega expensive to widen the hill to S4. Basically S4 from the Duel to just past the 1st bridge. That would keep the crawler lane, and then past the 1st bridge, your idea for 2 westbound lanes looks OK.
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Re: A30 Carland Cross Chiverton Cross

Post by Phil »

A320Driver wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 09:55 Here’s my attempt at improving the last section of S2 on the A30. I reckon this will be promoted by HE within the next 10 years. I also agree with Jackal, that the Camborne - Hayle section will be low priority given the BCR will be low.

68B93620-7452-4A45-B657-68B8E2B64D25.jpeg
Why not just follow the railway corridor south of Canons Town?
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