End of motorways

[A9NWIL]

That's reserved for Ringway 1.

I prefer M45.

That would be grossly out of zone!

Not if it is hooked up to the real M45...

Thats a good idea send that across to meet the A14 where they are building the new bit that will cross the A1 at Huntingdon.

The other way of the M45 would need to join onto something like the M40.

[KeithW]

Once the route between the M25 and A720 is upgraded to full motorway standard, it wouldnt look so bad, but like McNessA720 said, it would be M10 and M1.
M1 would be the continual route between London and Edinburgh though, so that wont be so bad, M10 to just north of Leeds would be an extra parallel route, that would take some of the burden off the M1 up to Leeds.

Lots of luck getting the money to upgrade the A1 to motorway standard between Alnwick and Dunbar where the AADF fluctuates between 8 and 12 K. Up to now there has no chance of even dualling it. Even if you manage it there is no way the Scottish Government would accept an English Motorway number for what would be seen as a new road that they would have to finance.

[Osthagen]

Once an Ax(M) section exceeds 10 miles, it should be given an appropriate Mx number. So for example, the sections of A1(M) in the North East should have been numbered to M19 once they were all joined up in the 1970s. Then as part of the adjoining motorway (whatever it might be numbered) once the Leeming-Barton link is constructed.

As for the A74(M), that could have become M6 in (or even before) 1999 when all of the sections north of Gretna were linked up. After all, it didn’t bother anyone that there were disjointed sections of M4 across southern England and Wales!

So you want to do away with using the same road number system on the primary strategic road between London and Edinburgh just so you can give the motorway sections an M Prefix !. So presumably you think the route to Edinburgh should instead of being all A1 with the motorway sections denoted by the suffix (M) should be split into the following.

City Of London to M25 - A1
M25 to Baldock - M10
Baldock to Alconbury - A1
Alconbury to Peterborough - M10
Peterborough to Blyth - A1
Blyth to Redhouse - M10
Redhouse to Darrington - A1
Darrington to Gateshead - M19
Gateshead to Edinburgh - A1

This sounds like an extremely bad idea to me and would look REALLY silly on a map. The current numbering system does not cause any confusion to drivers but what you propose definitely could, it would seem therefore to be a retrograde step.

I should note that Baldock-Alconbury and Blyth-Redhouse are both due to be upgraded to motorway standards.

In the case of M25-Baldock, Alconbury-Peterborough and Darrington to Gateshead, as the user lotrjw suggested upthread, the LAR alongside could assume the A1 number (non-primary of course).

As I suggested, north of Blyth the A638 and A19 could be renumbered to A1 (if the A1(M) between Blyth and Gateshead were to assume an Mx number)

My point was that Ax(M)s look bad as long distance road numbers.

As for looking silly, what I propose looks no sillier than the Interstate 74 in the United States, interrupted by the US 52 and the like.

Lots of luck getting the money to upgrade the A1 to motorway standard between Alnwick and Dunbar where the AADF fluctuates between 8 and 12 K. Up to now there has no chance of even dualling it. Even if you manage it there is no way the Scottish Government would accept an English Motorway number for what would be seen as a new road that they would have to finance.

Were the A1 across Northumberland and the Borders dualled/upgraded to motrway, the AADF would no doubt increase, as traffic to Edinburgh and Eastern Scotland using the M6 (*) will be dispersed away from that road and onto the A1.

The AADF figures that I was able to find were more like 20k anyway.

*- Traffic from parts of Eastern England as far north as North Yorkshire has in the past been known to use the M6 for destinations in Eastern Scotland

[ScottB5411]

From Yorkshire? I'd be using the A696/A68 or A697/A68. Wouldn't dream of staying on the A1 or going over to the M6 for eastern Scotland. Cracking stop at the Wollen Mills in Jedburgh too via the A696 route

[Osthagen]

From Yorkshire? I'd be using the A696/A68 or A697/A68. Wouldn't dream of staying on the A1 or going over to the M6 for eastern Scotland. Cracking stop at the Wollen Mills in Jedburgh too via the A696 route

More often than not, I used to use the A68/A696 route to head south too.

[A9NWIL]

Once the route between the M25 and A720 is upgraded to full motorway standard, it wouldnt look so bad, but like McNessA720 said, it would be M10 and M1.
M1 would be the continual route between London and Edinburgh though, so that wont be so bad, M10 to just north of Leeds would be an extra parallel route, that would take some of the burden off the M1 up to Leeds.

Lots of luck getting the money to upgrade the A1 to motorway standard between Alnwick and Dunbar where the AADF fluctuates between 8 and 12 K. Up to now there has no chance of even dualling it. Even if you manage it there is no way the Scottish Government would accept an English Motorway number for what would be seen as a new road that they would have to finance.

If the Scots are so against the M1 extending into Scotland, it will have to change numbers at the border, the number in Scotland would be up to them but perhaps they would use M7?

[Burns]

*- Traffic from parts of Eastern England as far north as North Yorkshire has in the past been known to use the M6 for destinations in Eastern Scotland

If my journey is from home (15 miles south of Dundee) to anywhere on the east coast south of Scotch Corner then I'll be sticking firmly to the A74(M)/M6/A66 route. It's a lot more reliable than dealing with Edinburgh and the A1. I could use the A68 but that still has the Edinburgh problem.

[Osthagen]

If the Scots are so against the M1 extending into Scotland, it will have to change numbers at the border, the number in Scotland would be up to them but perhaps they would use M7?

As someone raised in Scotland by Scottish born and bred parents (I was born in the US), I've never had a problem with the idea and personally would welcome such a decision.

I also see little evidence that anyone was ever hugely offended by the idea of the M6 number being extended along the Gretna-Glasgow motorway.

We've got plenty of A1x and A6x roads north of the border, as with south of the border you'll find (albeit very few) A7x numbers. My point is that road numbers aren't specifically 'Scottish' or 'English'. They are, for a lack of a better word, numbers!

Even so, I doubt the general public is even aware of the fact that there are specific zones for roads with some designations being exclusive to Scotland.

[Altnabreac]

*- Traffic from parts of Eastern England as far north as North Yorkshire has in the past been known to use the M6 for destinations in Eastern Scotland

If my journey is from home (15 miles south of Dundee) to anywhere on the east coast south of Scotch Corner then I'll be sticking firmly to the A74(M)/M6/A66 route. It's a lot more reliable than dealing with Edinburgh and the A1. I could use the A68 but that still has the Edinburgh problem.

Distance wise anything west of Edinburgh Airport to anywhere south of Scotch Corner is going to be pretty much identical via M74 / A66 or via the A1.

So even with a D2M route through Northumberland you'll struggle to attract much traffic to your new M1 from beyond Edinburgh.

Fastlink would give you much more bang for your buck.

[wrinkly]

I also see little evidence that anyone was ever hugely offended by the idea of the M6 number being extended along the Gretna-Glasgow motorway.

The newly devolved Scottish Government (or Executive as it was then) seems to have been sufficiently unhappy about the idea to drop the publicly stated plans of the previous Scottish Office.

Earlier, somebody in the Scottish Office seems to have been sufficiently unhappy about the publiclly stated plans that they assigned southward-increasing junction numbers to each section instead of M6-based ones.

[orudge]

The newly devolved Scottish Government (or Executive as it was then) seems to have been sufficiently unhappy about the idea to drop the publicly stated plans of the previous Scottish Office.

My guess is that either:

a) Nobody cares.

or

b) Somebody cares, but looked at the cost of replacing loads of signs, repainting road numbers at junctions, etc, and decided that the benefit (which, frankly, isn't exactly huge) did not outweigh the cost, or couldn't be justified.

Personally I would love the M6 number to be extended to Glasgow, swallowing up the A74(M) and M6. If the A74(M) had actually numbered as M6 when it was built then I expect nobody would think twice about it now. As it is though, it's pretty much just us, and perhaps a few other curious folk, who really care about such things. The government just wants a road that is safe and works well - I don't expect the number is very high on the Transport Scotland list of concerns.

[Burns]

Personally I would love the M6 number to be extended to Glasgow, swallowing up the A74(M) and M6. If the A74(M) had actually numbered as M6 when it was built then I expect nobody would think twice about it now. As it is though, it's pretty much just us, and perhaps a few other curious folk, who really care about such things. The government just wants a road that is safe and works well - I don't expect the number is very high on the Transport Scotland list of concerns.

I actually like the A74(M). It defines the good section of quiet D3M with great scenery. Once you hit the M74, you know it's only a junction or two before the D2M section starts and the road begins to feel under capacity with elephant racing ruling the day. After the M90, the A74(M) is my favourite motorway.

[Chris Bertram]

We've got plenty of A1x and A6x roads north of the border, as with south of the border you'll find (albeit very few) A7x numbers. My point is that road numbers aren't specifically 'Scottish' or 'English'. They are, for a lack of a better word, numbers!

You're correct about the 1 zone and 6 zone numbers. But unless I've missed something, since the extension of the M6, the only 7 zone A road that makes it into England is the A7, and I don't think any B roads do.

[Berk]

Personally I would love the M6 number to be extended to Glasgow, swallowing up the A74(M) and M6. If the A74(M) had actually numbered as M6 when it was built then I expect nobody would think twice about it now. As it is though, it's pretty much just us, and perhaps a few other curious folk, who really care about such things. The government just wants a road that is safe and works well - I don't expect the number is very high on the Transport Scotland list of concerns.

I actually like the A74(M). It defines the good section of quiet D3M with great scenery. Once you hit the M74, you know it's only a junction or two before the D2M section starts and the road begins to feel under capacity with elephant racing ruling the day. After the M90, the A74(M) is my favourite motorway.

See, if that was England, it would be called ‘unnecessary’, and “over-capacity” - like the A1(M).

[Osthagen]

We've got plenty of A1x and A6x roads north of the border, as with south of the border you'll find (albeit very few) A7x numbers. My point is that road numbers aren't specifically 'Scottish' or 'English'. They are, for a lack of a better word, numbers!

You're correct about the 1 zone and 6 zone numbers. But unless I've missed something, since the extension of the M6, the only 7 zone A road that makes it into England is the A7, and I don't think any B roads do.

Maybe I was a tad too specific when a referred to A7x roads.

What I should have said was Zone-7 roads, in the sense that around 1000 feet of B7076 exist south of the border at Gretna. Once it crosses the M6, the designation changes to A6071.

If we count A7x(M)s as A7xs, then of course there is the 1300 feet of A74(M) south of the border in England.

[Arcuarius]

Why not downgrade the A1(M) back to primary all-purpose, if you're all so worried about how the (M) looks? Seriously, it's no more of a daft idea than arbitrarily calling parts of it M10. Honest to god...

[Berk]

Why not downgrade the A1(M) back to primary all-purpose, if you're all so worried about how the (M) looks? Seriously, it's no more of a daft idea than arbitrarily calling parts of it M10. Honest to god...

That much is true. I have spoken to non-UK people though, and they find the Ax(M) numbering confusing - so there’s definitely something in it.

[A9NWIL]

Why not downgrade the A1(M) back to primary all-purpose, if you're all so worried about how the (M) looks? Seriously, it's no more of a daft idea than arbitrarily calling parts of it M10. Honest to god...

That would be worse than upgrading the lot to motorway standard and giving it the number M10! lets move forwards not backwards!

[Berk]

Why not downgrade the A1(M) back to primary all-purpose, if you're all so worried about how the (M) looks? Seriously, it's no more of a daft idea than arbitrarily calling parts of it M10. Honest to god...

That would be worse than upgrading the lot to motorway standard and giving it the number M10! lets move forwards not backwards!

You could do it at the same time as the smart motorway upgrade. Only another few billion!!

[A9NWIL]

Why not downgrade the A1(M) back to primary all-purpose, if you're all so worried about how the (M) looks? Seriously, it's no more of a daft idea than arbitrarily calling parts of it M10. Honest to god...

That would be worse than upgrading the lot to motorway standard and giving it the number M10! lets move forwards not backwards!

You could do it at the same time as the smart motorway upgrade. Only another few billion!!

No smart motorways, they are a waste of money over building new ones!