Is it safe & necessary to turn right through hatchings?

[tipsynurse]

Long time lurker, sorry to drive straight in with a question!

The council have recently painted some new 1042.1 markings on a blind bend on part of my commute home, where you need to turn right to stay on National Cycle Route 5.

Google Maps link

The problem of course being that if you wait in the area seemingly for "right turns" oncoming vehicles use the hatchings to cut the corner and time after time end up swerving away from you at the last minute. They probably aren't in the wrong either, I don't think either direction has "priority" over centre hatchings unless indicated.

My understanding of TD42/95 is that although not expressly discouraged, they recommend solid lines, ribbed markings, coloured tarmac and/or a traffic island in situations where overtaking needs to be discouraged, which is very similar to this. Bearing in mind the circumstances (narrow hatchings, cycle route, blind corner) I would imagine a traffic island would be most sensible.

The council don't agree, they say 1042.1 in this circumstance is absolutely fine.

Opinions welcome... ironically it was much better before with normal markings. The problem is if you wait to the left of the hatchings not only does it cheese off following drivers but also you can't see well around the corner.

TN

[Mark Hewitt]

It does seem that hatching is often used in situations where 'no overtaking' is the message they want to convey, even if legally it has no such meaning.

[avtur]

I wouldn't have thought that overtaking was the primary risk here.

Looks more like an attempt to separate opposing traffic where it is likely that some traffic will cut the corner putting on coming right turners at risk. There doesn't appear to enough width in the road to create a full width turning right lane.

My understanding is that the broken line around the edge of the hatched area should not be driven over as a matter of course i.e. to cut the corner. It should be treated as solid line (or physical or physical kerb) unless there is good reason to drive over it.

[nowster]

As far as I am aware (and I'm prepared to be shot down on this) a broken hatching in the centre of the road would have the same legal status as a simple centre line.

[tipsynurse]

Thank you avtur.

The issue I have is that it should be obvious on 1042.1s around a tight corner people will cut it. Combine that with right turning cyclists and you are setting up head on conflicts.

I used the "overtaking" examples because I don't think there is advice on drivers trying to move closer to a racing line through corners!

Nowster its more that as a council traffic engineer surely they could see the potential conflict this could create. Even if not I offered to meet them but they declined.

I even had someone swerve onto the wrong side of the road one night. I know budgets are tight but they have made the layout much worse!

[Bryn666]

Looks like the kind of bend where a small refuge would eliminate corner cutting.

Lining is often used as a quick way to fix a problem but some practitioners out there unwittingly create new ones in doing that.

[WHBM]

Doesn't seem enough carriageway width to install a traffic island. The war memorial opposite already impinges on the desirable distance from the carriageway.

There's also just been a traffic calming width restriction a couple of hundred yards back for the approaching traffic, with a Give Way To Oncoming Vehicles. Are they really taking a "racing line" just beyond there ?

[Isleworth1961]

Looks like the kind of bend where a small refuge would eliminate corner cutting.

Lining is often used as a quick way to fix a problem but some practitioners out there unwittingly create new ones in doing that.

In a village near me, stone setts have been used instead of hatching, making the centre of the road bumpy so drivers are much less likely to 'cut the corner'. Having said that, there's not a junction on a bend like that, or even a bend that tight. Obviously this is a more expensive solution than a bit of white paint.

[Bomag]

Long time lurker, sorry to drive straight in with a question!

The council have recently painted some new 1042.1 markings on a blind bend on part of my commute home, where you need to turn right to stay on National Cycle Route 5.

TN

That is not marking 1042 it is supposed to be 1040 but as they have not bothered to remove the old centre line its not any prescribed marking. Given the nature of the road I would suggest a layout from TSM Chapter 5 would be more appropriate than TD42.

[tipsynurse]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have emailed them suggesting that these two layouts would be better, will see what comes back. Obviously the second one is a traffic island or raised, white painted area.

[Bfivethousand]

From experience of a previous scheme, simply offsetting the centre line - perhaps almost as far as the 'outside' of the two parallel lines of the hatching as installed - may have the benefit of creating that little bit of extra right turning space whilst reducing the risk of traffic cutting the corner in the opposite direction. The hatching is considered a safe zone by an element of drivers and can indeed create a new problem in trying to solve the original one.

Saying that, yes, a cheap bolt-on centre island is preferable if it can be comfortably accommodated and if the council coffers can stretch to that.

[Jam35]

Looks like a mini-roundabout would solve this one.

[tipsynurse]

A bit of an update on this, the council have repainted the markings so there are solid 1042.1 throughout. I.e. no gap for the right turn.

I have discussed the situation with my manager, there is an outstanding order for the hatching to be refurbished at which time the hatching through the junction will be made continous, vehicles (including cyclists) should not enter the area unless it is necessary and they can see that it is safe to do so.

Is it safe and necessary to enter the hatchings to turn right on a blind bend? I have not seen similar hatchings on a right turn before.

I don't know whether, as a driver or cyclist, you should be waiting in the hatchings or in lane when turning right?