Thames Crossing Proposals

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c2R
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by c2R »

roadtester wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 09:00
c2R wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:30 Looks like the Ben Woollacott is on its way here - it's currently heading across Germany on the North Sea - East Sea link canal

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... WOOLLACOTT
It still seems to be negotiating the canal (colloquially referred to as the Kiel Canal I believe) - makes sense to go that way as opposed to “around the top” in something like a Woolwich ferry I suppose!

PS - I notice that its status is “moored” - I hope it hasn’t conked out or something - or maybe some kit is being fitted to the ferry in Germany or something?
Yeah, it stopped there on Saturday night and didn't move yesterday - maybe the crew have Sunday off - Germany is stricter on Sunday working than England. We'll see later I suppose where it goes next... It's not very fast (again because of what it is designed for), so unless they turn of its AIS equipment it's going to be difficult for it to hide!
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Chris Bertram »

roadtester wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 09:00
c2R wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:30 Looks like the Ben Woollacott is on its way here - it's currently heading across Germany on the North Sea - East Sea link canal

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... WOOLLACOTT
It still seems to be negotiating the canal (colloquially referred to as the Kiel Canal I believe) - makes sense to go that way as opposed to “around the top” in something like a Woolwich ferry I suppose!

PS - I notice that its status is “moored” - I hope it hasn’t conked out or something - or maybe some kit is being fitted to the ferry in Germany or something?
Do the Germans call it the Kiel-Kanal? I thought they always stuck to Nord-Ostsee-Kanal. And it was originally the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Kanal before WW1.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 18:25
roadtester wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 09:00
c2R wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:30 Looks like the Ben Woollacott is on its way here - it's currently heading across Germany on the North Sea - East Sea link canal

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... WOOLLACOTT
It still seems to be negotiating the canal (colloquially referred to as the Kiel Canal I believe) - makes sense to go that way as opposed to “around the top” in something like a Woolwich ferry I suppose!

PS - I notice that its status is “moored” - I hope it hasn’t conked out or something - or maybe some kit is being fitted to the ferry in Germany or something?
Do the Germans call it the Kiel-Kanal? I thought they always stuck to Nord-Ostsee-Kanal. And it was originally the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Kanal before WW1.
IME it’s what most English speaking people who know it well call it - see e.g, Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_Canal
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Lower Thames Crossing

Post by qwertyK »

What is the proposed route number of this road? I've heard them mention a "A14 option". Why would they call it A14 when the A14 already exists?
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Re: Lower Thames Crossing

Post by c2R »

That's the option reference, and has nothing to do with the actual A14.

There's a thread on this as well. You might want to try using the site search.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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Make poetry history.

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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by c2R »

c2R wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 09:31
roadtester wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 09:00
c2R wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:30 Looks like the Ben Woollacott is on its way here - it's currently heading across Germany on the North Sea - East Sea link canal

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... WOOLLACOTT
It still seems to be negotiating the canal (colloquially referred to as the Kiel Canal I believe) - makes sense to go that way as opposed to “around the top” in something like a Woolwich ferry I suppose!

PS - I notice that its status is “moored” - I hope it hasn’t conked out or something - or maybe some kit is being fitted to the ferry in Germany or something?
Yeah, it stopped there on Saturday night and didn't move yesterday - maybe the crew have Sunday off - Germany is stricter on Sunday working than England. We'll see later I suppose where it goes next... It's not very fast (again because of what it is designed for), so unless they turn of its AIS equipment it's going to be difficult for it to hide!
I wonder if the same crew are moving both vessels - Ben Woollacott is still moored, but Dame Vera Lynn has left Gdansk and is heading for Keil - AIS anticipates arrival in two days... https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... ERA%20LYNN
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by c2R »

c2R wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 13:44

I wonder if the same crew are moving both vessels - Ben Woollacott is still moored, but Dame Vera Lynn has left Gdansk and is heading for Keil - AIS anticipates arrival in two days... https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... ERA%20LYNN
Dame Vera Lynn arrived at Kiel. AIS reporting that she plans to sail shortly for Tilbury, arrival scheduled for lunchtime on the 6th November into Tilbury

Update at7.30: both vessels are now sailing together towards the Elbe on the canal.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by c2R »

Both vessels are now in Tilbury.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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c2R wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 19:47 Both vessels are now in Tilbury.
Just a layman's guess, but would all that loitering for several days in the Kiel canal followed by both crossing together suggest that they were waiting for a favourable weather window?

Can’t be much fun doing a major sea crossing in one of those!
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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roadtester wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 19:54
c2R wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 19:47 Both vessels are now in Tilbury.
Just a layman's guess, but would all that loitering for several days in the Kiel canal followed by both crossing together suggest that they were waiting for a favourable weather window?

Can’t be much fun doing a major sea crossing in one of those!
Yes, I think that's definitely the case - ocean liners these are not!
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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In an unfortunate demonstration of the minimal value of the Woolwich ferry, we are now in the middle of a THREE MONTH shutdown of the service. October 1 to December 31. You have to ask, if the ferry can be shut down for this length of time for planned works, how can it be justified as essential in any way.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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WHBM wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 07:08 In an unfortunate demonstration of the minimal value of the Woolwich ferry, we are now in the middle of a THREE MONTH shutdown of the service. October 1 to December 31. You have to ask, if the ferry can be shut down for this length of time for planned works, how can it be justified as essential in any way.
Look up Cowes Floating Bridge on the Isle of Wight. It's more of a shock when it's actually running.

At least the Woolwich closure was planned.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Big L »

It's not a massive and heavily congested detour when the Cowes one closes though.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Berk »

WHBM wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 07:08 In an unfortunate demonstration of the minimal value of the Woolwich ferry, we are now in the middle of a THREE MONTH shutdown of the service. October 1 to December 31. You have to ask, if the ferry can be shut down for this length of time for planned works, how can it be justified as essential in any way.
I know. All things being equal and all that. What’s another three months between friends. :roll:
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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I suspect that there isn't an alternative. If the piers are to be modified to include electromagnetic docking and refurbished (which they are) and made able to berth the new, larger vessels, and for berthing trials to be conducted (these are needed at the ports the vessel is to use so cant just be done elsewhere) time is needed. I'm also not sure how these hybrids will charge (if they need to) possibly overnight in situ? But that also if it is the case would require work... I would have thought disruption is being kept to a minimum, but it isn't the fault of the new ferries that successive administations have failed to build additional crossings in east London and that we're now in such a position.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Scratchwood »

roadtester wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 19:54
c2R wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 19:47 Both vessels are now in Tilbury.
Just a layman's guess, but would all that loitering for several days in the Kiel canal followed by both crossing together suggest that they were waiting for a favourable weather window?

Can’t be much fun doing a major sea crossing in one of those!
Especially in autumn, it might have been better if they'd arranged to have them delivered in July!

Or found a British yard, a shame that somewhere like Appledore (about to close due to no work) couldn't make such boats
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Euan »

Scratchwood wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:02 Or found a British yard, a shame that somewhere like Appledore (about to close due to no work) couldn't make such boats
But the new ferries would still have to navigate potentially rough waters to reach the Thames. Sailing from Appledore would require the ferries to round Land's End and Lizard Point. The ferries would also have to go that way if they were coming from places like Merseyside, the Firth of Clyde and Belfast. Sailing round the north of Scotland would be even less inviting.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Moore_O »

I know the North Sea *can* be treacherous, but it's never like that for long. Dutch and Thames barges used to cross regularly - not something I'd actually fancy doing, but obviously fine if you like that sort of thing (or are being paid!).

Plus, while the Woolwich reach never gets rough as such, the tides must be pretty fierce - these ferries will have plenty of power, which is definitely high up the list of things I'd want to see in any vessel I was going to sea in.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by WHBM »

Just to follow up on this, the ferry didn't reopen "Before Christmas", nor did it open on "December 31", and the latest is it will be "sometime in February". The "sometime" meaning presumably they are still not sure. That's getting towards 6 months of closure.

It seems TfL are incapable of doing any project that opens anywhere near its original stated opening date.

https://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/w ... -1-5854864
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