A4146 downgraded to B440

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A303Chris
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A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by A303Chris » Mon Dec 11, 2017 13:11

Well I know the WiKi says Buckinghamshire was looking at downgrading the road after the completion of A5-M1 link so they could install a weight limit and this has now been done.

Was looking at SABRE maps this morning for work (more up to date than Bing) and when I zoomed into 1:50,000, as shown here the A4146 changes to the B440. So it seems three county councils have agreed to declassify it.

However, its not going to deter people using it and they could have put a weight limit on an A roads as with the south of Windsor cordon, so why have double the expense replacing all the A road signs and adding a weight limit.
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Bryn666
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by Bryn666 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 13:30

It won't deter locals but the Sat nav truckers will dodge it. Assuming they are up to date......

B440 is a nice number though.
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c2R
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by c2R » Mon Dec 11, 2017 17:44

That creates a lovely random change of A number from A505 to A4146 on the Leighton Buzzard bypass then, unless that's been taken care of? I'd love to see the A418 extended to meet the A5 and the A505 number used instead to replace the A1081 to meet the M1..

Edit - there's a bit in here: https://democracy.buckscc.gov.uk/docume ... e%20V2.pdf about the A505
A further option to rename the northern part of the A4146 as a continuation of the A505 was
raised, but this is not likely to be practical as the longer term strategic view is for the A505 to be
the Oxford to Cambridge trunk road.
That can't be right, can it?
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by Truvelo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 17:56

c2R wrote:That can't be right, can it?
A421 surely. A505 is on a completely different alignment and it will be out of zone.
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by vlad » Mon Dec 11, 2017 19:16

c2R wrote:That creates a lovely random change of A number from A505 to A4146 on the Leighton Buzzard bypass then, unless that's been taken care of?
The Leighton Buzzard bypass has history of a random number change - before the western bypass was built the A418 and A505 ran into each other at the SW roundabout.

However, you'd think they'd do something about it. OSM suggests that the A505 has been extended back west to meet the A418, which at least gives us a triple point if it is the case - but there doesn't seem a need for the A4146 to exist any more, so if they're willing to spend money on renumbering the southern section why not the rest?
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by c2R » Mon Dec 11, 2017 19:46

vlad wrote: However, you'd think they'd do something about it. OSM suggests that the A505 has been extended back west to meet the A418, which at least gives us a triple point if it is the case - but there doesn't seem a need for the A4146 to exist any more, so if they're willing to spend money on renumbering the southern section why not the rest?
that's not quite the whole story - I think they've created a gap with a short urban A4146 section at the south and a longer newer section at the north.
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by Robert Kilcoyne » Mon Dec 11, 2017 19:59

The A418 could be extended along the A4146 past Stoke Hammond and Bletchley and through eastern Milton Keynes to terminate at M1 Junction 14. It would then provide a single number for the route between Oxford and Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. The A4146 number could be retained for the short urban section in Hemel Hempstead.

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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by Berk » Mon Dec 11, 2017 23:07

c2R wrote:
vlad wrote: However, you'd think they'd do something about it. OSM suggests that the A505 has been extended back west to meet the A418, which at least gives us a triple point if it is the case - but there doesn't seem a need for the A4146 to exist any more, so if they're willing to spend money on renumbering the southern section why not the rest?
that's not quite the whole story - I think they've created a gap with a short urban A4146 section at the south and a longer newer section at the north.
Yes, that’s it. I mean, I support this proposal because it’s obviously meant to deter medium-distance traffic from using the reclassified section/B440. But that means it’s yet another example of a useless multiplex, where a B-road number takes precedence over an A-road for much of its length... :x

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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by si404 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 19:42

Signs in Hemel have shown the B440 number since the summer (I've only seen signs at the Magic Roundabout with "L. Buzzard (B440) A4146" on them). The Hemel portion is now its original ~1934 route, give or take a little bit.

What's also interesting is that, after talk in parish councils of it becoming a B road, the A5130 suddenly turned unclassified on the OS mapping, including the bit north of the A421 that we've been unsure as to whether it still existed or not for over 5 years.

I'd imagine the area will have (yet) another mass renumbering if the E-W Expressway comes about.
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by Berk » Tue Dec 12, 2017 19:54

Which zone does the northern portion actually lie in?? Now that it’s been separated from the southern half...

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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by 6637 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 20:30

c2R wrote:That creates a lovely random change of A number from A505 to A4146 on the Leighton Buzzard bypass then, unless that's been taken care of? I'd love to see the A418 extended to meet the A5 and the A505 number used instead to replace the A1081 to meet the M1..

Edit - there's a bit in here: https://democracy.buckscc.gov.uk/docume ... e%20V2.pdf about the A505
A further option to rename the northern part of the A4146 as a continuation of the A505 was
raised, but this is not likely to be practical as the longer term strategic view is for the A505 to be
the Oxford to Cambridge trunk road.
That can't be right, can it?
The only possible thing I can think they could mean is that there's an intention to extend the A505 west from the Leighton Buzzard bypass to near Winslow, to meet up with the new Oxford-Cambridge expressway. And that somehow they missed out a few words, completely changing the meaning of the sentence.

Which would make sense, traffic from the Oxford/Bicester area to the Dunstable/Luton area would be bound to make use of such a route.

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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by c2R » Tue Dec 12, 2017 20:39

6637 wrote: The only possible thing I can think they could mean is that there's an intention to extend the A505 west from the Leighton Buzzard bypass to near Winslow, to meet up with the new Oxford-Cambridge expressway. And that somehow they missed out a few words, completely changing the meaning of the sentence.

Which would make sense, traffic from the Oxford/Bicester area to the Dunstable/Luton area would be bound to make use of such a route.
that would be lovely, combined with a Luton northern bypass and Hitchin southern bypass... but probably not in my lifetime!
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Re: A4146 downgraded to B440

Post by si404 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 20:53

Berk wrote:Which zone does the northern portion actually lie in?? Now that it’s been separated from the southern half...
4 - the A505 is out of zone there. The boundary is the A5183, which runs parallel to the east.

Really the A505 (if it wasn't renumbered A418) should have been removed from Dunstable town centre, just as it should have been removed from Luton town centre when they finished the recent upgrades of the M1-Airport route in Luton. The old route in Dunstable and between the Luton ring road and the Airport could have been A5065 with the A505 route east of the M1 into Luton downgraded (as Luton BC has done with signs). I guess the Luton side of things not happening is hope for those wanting a northern bypass.
6637 wrote:The only possible thing I can think they could mean is that there's an intention to extend the A505 west from the Leighton Buzzard bypass to near Winslow, to meet up with the new Oxford-Cambridge expressway. And that somehow they missed out a few words, completely changing the meaning of the sentence.
Perhaps - there's talk of MK getting that far west, so a high quality link to about there (and presumably another one heading south to Aylesbury) would make some sense even though its rather indirect for Oxford - Luton traffic.
Which would make sense, traffic from the Oxford/Bicester area to the Dunstable/Luton area would be bound to make use of such a route.
Which is (one of several reasons) why I have no idea why the planners don't particularly like the Southern option that would make that, and MK-Aylesbury (and Oxford-Watford, providing a shorter route from Oxford to the M25 in Herts than via the M40), far less work for Bucks CC - which doesn't particularly care about funding road schemes (or about making sure developers build roads to the quality asked for - cf the development off Pyebush roundabout, that was meant to incorporate a re-route of the A355 to deal with traffic issues).
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