A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Chris Bertram
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris Bertram »

If cooling towers are your thing, Ratcliffe-on-Soar still has some.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by TomJ »

Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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TomJ wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:19 Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
Went this way both ways last week. Slowed down somewhat but kept moving generally. Despite the works, Google maps routed us via M18/A1(M)/A1 etc to Hook Moor rather than M1.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by ravenbluemoon »

It's caught me out a couple of times. For the most part there's a delay of about 15 - 20 minutes if you're trying to get through in the daytime, apart from the usual peak times where the single lane is horrendous. Usually if I'm heading southbound I'll jump onto the A19 to Askern then along the C52 to Barnsdale Bar. Might not save a huge amount of time, but it's less stressful - also a useful route when it shuts overnight.
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From the SABRE Wiki: C52 %28Doncaster%29 :

The C52, maintained by Doncaster Council, is a route running east from the A1 at Barnsdale Bar to Askern.

... Read More
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Hdeng16 »

TomJ wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:19 Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
70k in 3 lanes reduced to 1 within a very short distance, and a slip road joining. It’s not great.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris Bertram »

Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 20:38
TomJ wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:19 Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
70k in 3 lanes reduced to 1 within a very short distance, and a slip road joining. It’s not great.
That's southbound. Northbound it's after it's been 2 lanes for some distance including the entire A1(M) Doncaster bypass so not quite so problematical.

We were coming back home (southbound) at about 8:30 on Thursday evening. By that time it was reasonably tolerable, and as I said Google Maps had sent us that way in preference to M1 despite the works.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by owen b »

Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 21:09
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 20:38
TomJ wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:19 Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
70k in 3 lanes reduced to 1 within a very short distance, and a slip road joining. It’s not great.
That's southbound. Northbound it's after it's been 2 lanes for some distance including the entire A1(M) Doncaster bypass so not quite so problematical.

We were coming back home (southbound) at about 8:30 on Thursday evening. By that time it was reasonably tolerable, and as I said Google Maps had sent us that way in preference to M1 despite the works.
I've travelled southbound from Scotch Corner to Luton a couple of times on Sunday afternoons / evenings recently, and surprisingly Google still preferred sticking to the A1(M) at Hook Moor rather than diverting down the M1. On one of those occasions it then suggested a ten minute time saving by taking the M62, off at J32, through Pontefract and then A639 back to the A1 at Barnsdale Bar beyond the works at Wentbridge, and that worked surprisingly well, as it wasn't congested and I'm sure it saved time. Another possibility is onto the M62, off at J33 Ferrybridge, and rejoin the A1 at Darrington, but that is in effect queue jumping as you rejoin the A1 shortly before the Wentbridge viaduct works.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

KeithW wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 19:13
thomas417 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 21:51 Do we still have no idea of what exactly is being proposed here?
As I understand it they are working on a number of proposals.
It's been moved to RIS4 along with other RIS3 pipeline schemes. In practice it's likely to be cancelled by change of govt.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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jackal wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 16:57
KeithW wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 19:13
thomas417 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 21:51 Do we still have no idea of what exactly is being proposed here?
As I understand it they are working on a number of proposals.
It's been moved to RIS4 along with other RIS3 pipeline schemes. In practice it's likely to be cancelled by change of govt.
At this stage I wouldn't assume that Road Investment Periods will be around long enough for RIS4 to ever happen. It might do, of course, but it's all to play for.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 23:06
jackal wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 16:57
KeithW wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 19:13 As I understand it they are working on a number of proposals.
It's been moved to RIS4 along with other RIS3 pipeline schemes. In practice it's likely to be cancelled by change of govt.
At this stage I wouldn't assume that Road Investment Periods will be around long enough for RIS4 to ever happen. It might do, of course, but it's all to play for.
If you’re going to invoke zero-sum arguments, then what the hell was the point of the smart motorway schemes?? They ate most of the trunk road budget from 2006 onwards.

Now no-one has any confidence in them. A complete waste of money. :x /rant over

It is probably more realistic to say that fully-developed schemes will be progressed. I don’t believe that slashing the entire road programme à la New Labour is any more viable. You would have to break contracts already signed for a start.

So then it becomes a question or “do we actually save more money by doing nothing”??

I agree new schemes may be slower in coming along. But think about it. This is the mid-2020s. Most of our trunk road hotspots have already been identified, and dealt with.

So there would naturally be fewer schemes going forward anyway.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Berk wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 23:20
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 23:06
jackal wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 16:57 It's been moved to RIS4 along with other RIS3 pipeline schemes. In practice it's likely to be cancelled by change of govt.
At this stage I wouldn't assume that Road Investment Periods will be around long enough for RIS4 to ever happen. It might do, of course, but it's all to play for.
If you’re going to invoke zero-sum arguments, then what the hell was the point of the smart motorway schemes?? They ate most of the trunk road budget from 2006 onwards.
Not sure what that has to do with what I said?

My point was that we may well get a change of government, and a new government might not carry on with the relatively new system of Road Investment Periods. That's not a zero sum argument, it's just a fairly uncontroversial observation.
It is probably more realistic to say that fully-developed schemes will be progressed. I don’t believe that slashing the entire road programme à la New Labour is any more viable. You would have to break contracts already signed for a start.
What contracts? No contracts have been signed for schemes in RIS4.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Chris5156 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 00:59
Berk wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 23:20
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 23:06 At this stage I wouldn't assume that Road Investment Periods will be around long enough for RIS4 to ever happen. It might do, of course, but it's all to play for.
If you’re going to invoke zero-sum arguments, then what the hell was the point of the smart motorway schemes?? They ate most of the trunk road budget from 2006 onwards.
Not sure what that has to do with what I said?

My point was that we may well get a change of government, and a new government might not carry on with the relatively new system of Road Investment Periods. That's not a zero sum argument, it's just a fairly uncontroversial observation.
Ah, my mistake. You are right, of course, a new government could plan to do things differently. But I felt that the new approach from 2014 was aimed at sustained investment over time. Whether that can be delivered with (no additional) money, of course, is another matter.

My personal belief is that schemes that there isn’t enough time left to deliver in RIS2 will be rolled over into RIS3. They should hopefully be shovel-ready, and good to go. That would then have a knock in effect on previous RIS3 schemes which have not begun design work, or legal processes yet. They could possibly be pushed further back into RIS4.
It is probably more realistic to say that fully-developed schemes will be progressed. I don’t believe that slashing the entire road programme à la New Labour is any more viable. You would have to break contracts already signed for a start.
What contracts? No contracts have been signed for schemes in RIS4.
Sorry, I’m not thinking that far ahead, just existing schemes already in the pipeline.

To put it context, you may remember the Welsh Government have announced they no longer plan to build major roads. Of course that gives them green kudos. But the subtext is they don’t actually have any money to do so either.

There’s no point promoting plans if you don’t have the money to bring them about.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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TomJ wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:19 Haven't seen it mentioned in any other thread, but there's currently works going on at Wentbridge Viaduct for waterproofing and structuraral inspection.

Apparently started in April, but have been causing quite substantial tailbacks each time I've been using the route. AADT of around 70k reduced to a single lane in each direction. Eek.

Due to finish in winter.
Living on that stretch it’s a pain but needs doing I guess, I know a lot of effort was put into publicity about it prior to works starting, plenty of prior warning on matrix signs and even signage on the M25 advising using the M1, 70k simply doesn’t go into one lane so I suspect over half the usual traffic is diverting via the M1 or other routes….

One noticeable thing is accidents have reduced massively, prior to works the A1 here was either closed or reduced daily by accidents, obviously having the traffic near standstill 24/7 has reduced this issue, but long term 70k for a rural dual carriageway is ridiculous, no room for error, trying to join from our driveway is horrendous, upgrading this section is a must.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by MotorwayGuy »

It's a relatively short section between two motorway sections which doesn't help but as it's a rural area it could be achieved with minimal demolition so it keeps costs down.

The Northbound carriageway is worse with things like this and tight junctions with short slip lanes

Comparing it to the section at Sandy and Biggleswade though shows it's not the worst section of the A1 to be ignored.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Berk wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 02:18My personal belief is that schemes that there isn’t enough time left to deliver in RIS2 will be rolled over into RIS3. They should hopefully be shovel-ready, and good to go. That would then have a knock in effect on previous RIS3 schemes which have not begun design work, or legal processes yet. They could possibly be pushed further back into RIS4.
Well, that's about where we are. Schemes intended for RIS2 that haven't yet started will probably go ahead - in terms of big projects that effectively means Stonehenge, the LTC and the A417 Air Balloon. Schemes slated for RIS3 have all been pushed back five years and are now in RIS4; there is now no such thing as a big RIS3 scheme. RIS3 currently looks like it will consist of picking up some of the unfinished business from RIS2 and catching up with maintenance work. Even then some unstarted RIS2 schemes might be gone altogether.

All of which, as I said above, assumes that the current system will remain intact following a general election, but of course such a thing is not guaranteed. If there's a change of government there could be a change of policy and it could all go out of the window anyway.

Previous threads:
National Highways route strategies
Strategic Road Network Initial Report
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Chris5156 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 21:57 RIS3 currently looks like it will consist of picking up some of the unfinished business from RIS2
And RIS1! viewtopic.php?p=1282516
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

I’m now starting to understand Chris’s point better, I took it to mean scrapping RIS’s would mean schemes taking ages again to be promoted. In actual fact, whilst I was aware of individual delayed schemes, I wasn’t aware of the number of them.

That must be around 10% of what was proposed. And as you say, big delays = bigger costs. The infuriating thing is, other than Stonehenge, they’re not intractable schemes to deliver. The A47 schemes should’ve been quick wins, really. And the A460.

They’ve taken far too long.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Berk wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 15:30 I’m now starting to understand Chris’s point better, I took it to mean scrapping RIS’s would mean schemes taking ages again to be promoted. In actual fact, whilst I was aware of individual delayed schemes, I wasn’t aware of the number of them.

That must be around 10% of what was proposed. And as you say, big delays = bigger costs. The infuriating thing is, other than Stonehenge, they’re not intractable schemes to deliver. The A47 schemes should’ve been quick wins, really. And the A460.

They’ve taken far too long.
I would say we're about one entire RIS behind where we're supposed to be. The median large RIS1 or RIS2 scheme will actually start construction about 5 years later than it was projected to. There's scheme-by-scheme evidence for this in the thread I linked above, and it's also supported by RIS3 being a write off that's just catching up with unfinished RIS1 and RIS2 schemes.

I know people love to hate politicians, but I think the main problem is just that RIS1 and RIS2 were too optimistic in terms of cost and timescale. If the contents had been the same but with the average scheme shoved back 5 years it would look like things were going well, though nothing more would have been achieved.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

You’re right about this. I think there are a number of issues, chief among them non-planning related delays. Today’s news about the A460 being a prime example. I’m not sure why BAM Nuttall have pulled out, but this has obviously forced the scheme back to the drawing board.

As we know there are issues with the supply chain, skilled workers, and the Ukraine war, and it’s fair to say the Government couldn’t have anticipated those.

But they seem to have gone hell’s teeth for new projects, and maybe the scale of the ambition (which is normally a good thing) is a bad thing, because as you say, we end up taking more projects on than resources allow.

And it’s the same on the railways too. HS2 being such a vast project in itself, but also the Great Western and MML electrification, and Northern Rail improvements too. It’s like trying to do 50 years of investment in a week. No wonder schemes are being delayed, or rephased.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by mbeatts »

Berk wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 17:10 You’re right about this. I think there are a number of issues, chief among them non-planning related delays. Today’s news about the A460 being a prime example. I’m not sure why BAM Nuttall have pulled out, but this has obviously forced the scheme back to the drawing board.

As we know there are issues with the supply chain, skilled workers, and the Ukraine war, and it’s fair to say the Government couldn’t have anticipated those.

But they seem to have gone hell’s teeth for new projects, and maybe the scale of the ambition (which is normally a good thing) is a bad thing, because as you say, we end up taking more projects on than resources allow.

And it’s the same on the railways too. HS2 being such a vast project in itself, but also the Great Western and MML electrification, and Northern Rail improvements too. It’s like trying to do 50 years of investment in a week. No wonder schemes are being delayed, or rephased.
Costs your issue on that one, calling it quits when the client wants it done for x when really it should cost y. Hard but wise move.
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