A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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B1040
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by B1040 »

No Tempsford bypass built here. The A1 has had the same line for a good 40+ years. In the 90s, the bridge with slip roads and the LAR were built.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris5156 »

B1040 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 19:30No Tempsford bypass built here. The A1 has had the same line for a good 40+ years. In the 90s, the bridge with slip roads and the LAR were built.
Tempsford does have a tiny bypass - the A1 is realigned around the east side of the centre of the village, though it's very close to the buildings so it really just gets through traffic off a short section of the main street. On the One Inch layer on SABRE Maps you can see that it opened between 1959 and 1963. But it's such a small scale realignment that I agree it would be hard to call it a bypass!
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

B1040 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 19:30 No Tempsford bypass built here. The A1 has had the same line for a good 40+ years. In the 90s, the bridge with slip roads and the LAR were built.
Well ISTR that that pre 1990's the Tempsford Road had a very dodgy flat junction on the A1. The adding of the LAR and sliproads meant that accessing the A1 and Tempsford from Everton became much less of a nerve racking affair. It must have been around then when the overbridge of the A1 at Edworth (the water tower) was built, that was another very scary junction to the point that I usually went on up to the roundabout at Biggleswade.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Glenn A »

NICK 647063 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 18:34
andypins wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 18:30 A little confused but imagine it is just a Google earth and maps mistake but on there this part of the road is down as A1(M).
Google do this from time to time, a few years ago the A64 all became the A64(M) right through leeds to Scarborough they sorted it within 3 months!
Now a D3M to Scarborough that really would be a case of overkill, even if the journey time would be far shorter. :D
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Is the idea that it would be online widening more than a SABRE hypothesis? I've always thought it more likely that it would follow the 1990s route.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
If so that would be a rather irrational response given that the existing road is a poor quality 1960's artefact with no hard shoulder and some appallingly dangerous junctions. It has one of the worst records of any major road in the country when it comes to safety.

Notorious high risk points

Services
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58768 ... 8192?hl=en

Skellow
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58775 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58768 ... 8192?hl=en
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jackal
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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wrinkly wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 00:01
jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Is the idea that it would be online widening more than a SABRE hypothesis? I've always thought it more likely that it would follow the 1990s route.
Well there's this from a TfN document, which rather suggests the Doncaster bypass would be improved online:
A1 Doncaster to Darrington: Upgrading the A1 in Yorkshire to motorway standard, improving the notoriously congested Doncaster bypass and replacing the outdated stretch of dual carriageway between Doncaster and the M62. Coupled with improvements in the Midlands, this would create a ‘Yorkshire bypass’, allowing long distance traffic to stay off the M1 and improve conditions around Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds.
You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.

Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 08:42
wrinkly wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 00:01
jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Is the idea that it would be online widening more than a SABRE hypothesis? I've always thought it more likely that it would follow the 1990s route.
Well there's this from a TfN document, which rather suggests the Doncaster bypass would be improved online:
A1 Doncaster to Darrington: Upgrading the A1 in Yorkshire to motorway standard, improving the notoriously congested Doncaster bypass and replacing the outdated stretch of dual carriageway between Doncaster and the M62. Coupled with improvements in the Midlands, this would create a ‘Yorkshire bypass’, allowing long distance traffic to stay off the M1 and improve conditions around Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds.
You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.

Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
Here comes the obvious British Fudge where they'll build an offline D2M north of Redhouse... although arguably if the scheme is purely safety that would be fine, it would totally make the Donny bit stand out as even worse than it already is though. :bang: :bang: :bang:
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 08:42
You don't say you're 'improving' the existing bypass if you're building a new outer bypass. And by far the most likely improvement to the existing bypass is ALR, given space constraints.

Of course it is the Doncaster section that I am saying is directly affected by the ALR announcement, but the section north of there won't be built if extra capacity isn't provided on the Doncaster bypass, which has higher volumes. Hence the backburner.
These were originally 2 schemes that were combined which suggests rather more will be happening than a simple widening and ALR


Considering the precedent of Wetherby to Darrington I would expect an offline upgrade of the A1 to the West of Skellow with the old A1 becoming the all purpose LAR designated A162.

Widening the A1(M) south of Doncaster to Blythe would be simple enough

This leaves the section of the A1(M) between Darrington and the M18. The big problem here is the Don Bridge which is seriously sub standard and has been fitted with upgraded barriers that seem to preclude widening.

My guess would be that a second bridge across the Don Valley would be a likely option. We know from the NFU that Highways England have been consulting with farmers which suggests a sizable land take us being considered.

https://www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-i ... arrington/
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:10 Here comes the obvious British Fudge where they'll build an offline D2M north of Redhouse... although arguably if the scheme is purely safety that would be fine, it would totally make the Donny bit stand out as even worse than it already is though. :bang: :bang: :bang:
Indeed and that right now is the major traffic hotspot in both directions.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Bryn666 »

KeithW wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:48
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:10 Here comes the obvious British Fudge where they'll build an offline D2M north of Redhouse... although arguably if the scheme is purely safety that would be fine, it would totally make the Donny bit stand out as even worse than it already is though. :bang: :bang: :bang:
Indeed and that right now is the major traffic hotspot in both directions.
Despite people thinking I somehow hate new roads these days (I don't, I hate induced demand schemes that facilitate more traffic instead of benefitting existing flows), the only online fix for Doncaster is to bite the bullet and demolish J36 entirely. You could perhaps then make an argument that the A6182 provides a better route into the city centre, and spend the money you'd have to coming up with an elaborate J36 to fix the M18 connections to the A6182.

The Don bridge is a cakewalk in comparison.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?

The reason is the new A14 replaced an outdated D2, you could compare traffic volume wise to the A1 Darrington to Redhouse, so anything was an improvement, I think the only reason smart motorways get bad press is due to the fact the hardshoulders were removed whereas the A14 never had them….

So why couldn’t the A1 be upgraded like the A14?

Either way I live beside the A1 on Hillcrest in Skellow and the congestion and daily accidents are crazy, the fact the lay-bys had to be removed as it was too dangerous to get in and out surely tell the problems of this section of A1, it’s simply ridiculous how it is now, totally outdated and dangerous, I seriously believe it’s the most needed upgrade in the UK now.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 16:47 So why couldn’t the A1 be upgraded like the A14?
Because the A1, unlike the A14, would feed into a severely congested unimproved bypass. The A14 Cambridge northern bypass had a running lane added, precisely the improvement that is needed but unlikely on the Doncaster bypass without ALR. The absolutism of the anti-ALR brigade has snookered this mostly non-ALR scheme.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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NICK 647063 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 16:47
jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?

Because it's got soft shoulders for much of the length - so if you need to get away from the live carriageway, you can do so. Yes, you could sink in the mud, but I'd say that's preferable to being rear-ended by a HGV.

Compare: https://goo.gl/maps/kGkGnA6aBpBMNjxi6 with https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7052148 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Hdeng16 »

c2R wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 18:03
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 16:47
jackal wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 23:42 Alas, this scheme is likely to be on the backburner with the ALR hiatus.
Or maybe it could be just built to D3M quality with hardshoulders well Darrington to Redhouse offline anyway…… it’s quite strange when people go on about smart motorways but then never mention the A14!, I understand the A14 isn’t a motorway from Cambridge to Huntingdon but it very nearly was, if it had become the A14(M) as mentioned part way through the project then it was have been a D3M smart motorway…… so I will ask the question how come nobody ever moans about the A14 not having hardshoulders?

Because it's got soft shoulders for much of the length - so if you need to get away from the live carriageway, you can do so. Yes, you could sink in the mud, but I'd say that's preferable to being rear-ended by a HGV.

Compare: https://goo.gl/maps/kGkGnA6aBpBMNjxi6 with https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7052148 ... 384!8i8192
I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.

Check this out near Tibshelf...

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192

The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Hdeng16 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 09:36

I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.

Check this out near Tibshelf...

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192

The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.outh
Not so I am afraid, these were stubs built for where Tibshelf Services were expected to be built but it was actually built farther south and they were never used. There is no road access to them. Turning it into refuge would I suppose be possible. However there are a number of equipment cabinets and the like which would complicate matters. Plus there is already a refuge just over a mile north of there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1478801 ... 312!8i6656
https://motorwayservices.uk/Tibshelf wrote: See also: M1 Service Area Planning

The service area was planned to be a few hundred yards further up the M1. Underneath the Mansfield Road bridge are two ghost slips (partly removed in the 2016 roadworks). These lined up with two more that were removed to build the entry from the current Tibshelf services.

These four ghost slips were built with the M1, and would have allowed a more traditional service area (with straight slip roads) to be built in the field north of the modern Tibshelf services. This was planned to be done when the adjacent two service areas reached full capacity. A total of 19 acres was purchased by the Ministry of Transport for developing into the service area. Some of that land was later sold to develop Willow Court, which makes the original plan harder to imagine.
You can see this quite clearly from the Mansfield Road bridge.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1468717 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Bryn666 »

KeithW wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:11
Hdeng16 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 09:36

I've been banging this drum for years and years now. Some of the decision making has been utterly mind blowing - stupid and dangerous.

Check this out near Tibshelf...

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1459349 ... 384!8i8192

The original services "Stubs" - plenty of space to get well away from the live lanes, plenty of hard standing for any recovery truck. Nope - block the lot off please. Just insanity.outh
Not so I am afraid, these were stubs built for where Tibshelf Services were expected to be built but it was actually built farther south and they were never used. There is no road access to them. Turning it into refuge would I suppose be possible. However there are a number of equipment cabinets and the like which would complicate matters. Plus there is already a refuge just over a mile north of there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1478801 ... 312!8i6656
https://motorwayservices.uk/Tibshelf wrote: See also: M1 Service Area Planning

The service area was planned to be a few hundred yards further up the M1. Underneath the Mansfield Road bridge are two ghost slips (partly removed in the 2016 roadworks). These lined up with two more that were removed to build the entry from the current Tibshelf services.

These four ghost slips were built with the M1, and would have allowed a more traditional service area (with straight slip roads) to be built in the field north of the modern Tibshelf services. This was planned to be done when the adjacent two service areas reached full capacity. A total of 19 acres was purchased by the Ministry of Transport for developing into the service area. Some of that land was later sold to develop Willow Court, which makes the original plan harder to imagine.
You can see this quite clearly from the Mansfield Road bridge.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1468717 ... 384!8i8192
I think that was the point being made - that expanse of tarmac could have been another refuge area instead of being physically blocked off and forcing people into live lanes if they come to a stop.

These design choices have all been extremely poor, the public relations even worse. It's no wonder we are now in a situation where a relatively simple method of improving motorway capacity is turning into one of the biggest transport scandals of recent times.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by 6637 »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:59 Despite people thinking I somehow hate new roads these days (I don't, I hate induced demand schemes that facilitate more traffic instead of benefitting existing flows), the only online fix for Doncaster is to bite the bullet and demolish J36 entirely. You could perhaps then make an argument that the A6182 provides a better route into the city centre, and spend the money you'd have to coming up with an elaborate J36 to fix the M18 connections to the A6182.

The Don bridge is a cakewalk in comparison.
That'd work fine, though I'd say that you'd probably need to replace it with a new junction on the M18 to serve traffic to places like Conisbrough and New Edlington. The A6182 serves Doncaster but not the places west of the M18.
Doncaster.png
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by SouthWest Philip »

6637 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 13:03 That'd work fine, though I'd say that you'd probably need to replace it with a new junction on the M18 to serve traffic to places like Conisbrough and New Edlington. The A6182 serves Doncaster but not the places west of the M18.

Doncaster.png
It looks like Warmsworth could bypassed using the old railway line.
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