A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Berk
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Even if that scheme was adopted, wouldn’t a small, new stretch of A1(M) need to be built just south of J36 to allow for possible braiding, and flyovers to connect with a new connecting curve with the M18??

I can see part of the current mainline serving as off-slips before being flown over the current motorway to join the curve.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by mehere »

The original plan was to leave the end of the current D3(M) At ferrybridge, ( the carriageway is deliberately aligned slewed quite far left .
(I spoke to a manager at the project office there back in 06 I think it was who told me it would be ten to fifteen years before they returned to finish the job, but that the new road would cut accross the current A1(T) and over the Golf course ). This also was in line with the 94 plan which shows just that going East round darrington .
Crossing somewhere close to that very dangerous junction for South Kirkby , where you have a maybe and petrol station so close to the exit . Why those have not been closed on safety grounds is beyond me as it's like suicide alley .
Anyway the road goes the. To the west side swings out behind the little chef and a new roundabout junction with the D2 Out of Doncaster and a short section of ' New ' A1(M) Doncaster bypass merging a short distance to the south .
Now it may be easier if it's possible , and maybe some sabristi can help with this as being in Scotland and having lived for years in Eireann I forget now what lies in the way as you work south from there .

But surely as I say it would be logical to continue a new D3 Totally bypassing the current road and rather than the upcoming rebuild of the current M18 interchange ( that I read about was needed due to life expired bridges like the lofthouuse interchange ).
Then is there any scope to continue the D3 and end it like they have at Scotch Corner way down at Bawtry .
( Side question why did they not make that new junction future proof as you'd not fit D3 under it if the A1T was ever made all motorway) .
Anyway would this not be a cheaper easier solution.
The current Doncaster bypass could be downgraded to either an all purpose WS2 , or closed and filled In altogether , reuniting communities in the same vein as they did with Fairburn .
After all it must be a living hell not to mention the emmisions for those houses up against the embankments.
It just seems that since HE said the M18 Junction needs major work , the A1 Widening and Bypass is one scheme , here is a one off opportunity to build it ' right ' this time .
Apologies for the long post but having recently driven it , compared to the locket empty motorways of Eireann ( in the West) and the relatively quiet A74(M) I found it terrifying especially trying to escape the petrol station I mentioned above I cannot think of a more dangerous bit of road anywhere else on the network.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by A9NWIL »

thatapanydude wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 22:23 Personally, I would not support any scheme that downgrades the current Doncaster bypass. For the A1(M) to meet the M18 Edlington it would be a near 90 diversion with considerable extra mileage.

I believe that the A1(M) from Darrington to Spotborough should be D4(M) and a D2(M) link should be made from Spotborough to the M18 at Edlington. The A1(M) from Spotborough to Blyth should then be left alone.

Maybe on the unrealistic side but could a tunnel be feasible under Warmsworth cutting out the difficult bits of online widening such as the railway, river and urban outskirts of Doncaster. While expensive, a scheme like this taking traffic and pollution away residents would gather a lot of support.
Well according to google and using the distance measure tool along a route that I would roughly choose, my westernly route is quicker at 30.5 km(18.95 mi) to 33.4 km(20.75 mi).
a proposed route for a new A1(M) from M62-M18.png
In my design there is a separate M18 west to/from A1(M) north route, to the main A1(M) going south. The new line main A1(M) crossing the M18 I would have with A1(M) north to/from M18 east links only, from the south the Doncatser bypass could be used for M18 to/from A1(M) south.

I would only downgrade the old A1 from J38 where the old Doncaster bypass would come to a halt at the A638. North of there to the A162 roundabout with the M62 could become S2 (or WS2) and become an extension of the A162. The Doncaster bypass could become the A162(M) and stay as is at D2M standard, as it would be a lot quieter but wouldnt cope as a S2 road.

Oh and the new A1(M) mainline would only be slightly longer at 32.83km (20.4mi) to the current 30.6km (20mi).
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Glenn A »

The A1(M) Doncaster by pass dates back to 1961, when a D2M would be considered more than adequate, and the dualling further north is of a similar vintage( early to mid sixties). Both need to be D3M and the Yorkshire Gap needs to be eliminated as you go from a very good stretch of D3M from Barton to Darrington and then end up on a nasty, dated stretch of D2.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by A9NWIL »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 15:43 The A1(M) Doncaster by pass dates back to 1961, when a D2M would be considered more than adequate, and the dualling further north is of a similar vintage( early to mid sixties). Both need to be D3M and the Yorkshire Gap needs to be eliminated as you go from a very good stretch of D3M from Barton to Darrington and then end up on a nasty, dated stretch of D2.
Leave the Doncaster bypass as a local road and build an entirely new D3M for the A1(M) traffic from the M18 to the M62, south of the M18 the new line could go to D2M and plug back in to the current A1(M)/A1 line south of Doncaster but with space to widen to D3M in the future.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Driving back from Kent to the NE on Friday I noticed the Don Bridge on the A1(M) has some new concrete barriers between lane 1 and the handrails. This would seem to preclude all lane running over the bridge, which IMHO is no bad thing as it would be darned dangerous. I do wonder what the implications for the much discussed plans to use the hard shoulder to provide 3 lanes.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Bryn666 »

It's a deal breaker as far as I can tell. There's no acceptable way you can widen the Donny Bypass to 3 lanes and not end up with a permanent 50 limit. And if you've got to replace critical structures as well the costs outweigh the benefits.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Stevie D »

I've been using the D2R stretch most days this week, and there's one thing I've spotted that I don't recall seeing mentioned upthread.

The Wentbridge viaduct looks as though it is a single bridge that has a central reservation down the middle. That means that if required, it could be repurposed into one carriageway of a D3M, with a new bridge built alongside for the other carriageway. (I don't necessarily think that is sensible, because as I've said upthread, the LAR should bypass Wentbridge and the gradient coming off the viaduct northbound is far steeper than you want on a motorway, but it is an option).

But the Don Valley viaduct looks like it is made of two separate bridges, which means that they couldn't be repurposed in the same way. And as we've already explored, there is no way that the existing viaduct could be safely made into 3 lanes each way at motorway speeds, even assuming that the structure is sound and could cope with the additional stresses.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by wrinkly »

Stevie D wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 21:25I've been using the D2R stretch
What's the R?
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Stevie D »

wrinkly wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 22:55
Stevie D wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 21:25I've been using the D2R stretch
What's the R?
Darrington 2 Redhouse :D
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by mehere »

Wasn't that long ago there was talk of resurrecting The stretch from the End of the D2(M) To Grantham , and the stretch where the road comes from Corby ( cannot recall the number ) and meets the A1(T).
Having watched the BBC series about the road, they have overflown Wentbridge, it's all too easy to see how lethal it is , what is the Terrain like further East , so Instead of Bypassing Darrington as is the alleged Plan , but swinging back toward Wentbridge , is there a less severe drop , IE ' flat land ' to cut a more gentle incline , I say this as I will never forget back in 06 .
The new Motorway was a long way from completion further North and they had cones up I think as far south as the Viaduct .
There was the dreadful pile up and I think if memory serves a van possibly as well as a car went over the side .
Calls where made then to have it finished .
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

mehere wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 00:42 Wasn't that long ago there was talk of resurrecting The stretch from the End of the D2(M) To Grantham , and the stretch where the road comes from Corby ( cannot recall the number ) and meets the A1(T).
Having watched the BBC series about the road, they have overflown Wentbridge, it's all too easy to see how lethal it is , what is the Terrain like further East , so Instead of Bypassing Darrington as is the alleged Plan , but swinging back toward Wentbridge , is there a less severe drop , IE ' flat land ' to cut a more gentle incline , I say this as I will never forget back in 06 .
The new Motorway was a long way from completion further North and they had cones up I think as far south as the Viaduct .
There was the dreadful pile up and I think if memory serves a van possibly as well as a car went over the side .
Calls where made then to have it finished .
There was a 1994 scheme to extend the A1(M) from Baldock to Alconbury that never happened. It used a line to the west of the current line rejoining the A1 at Brampton Hut. It was to have been a D3(M). I am not aware of any proposal to improve the road as far as the A43 with the obvious exception of the replacement of the roundabouts with GSJ's.

Wentbridge is busy but the section that I regard as downright dangerous is between the end of the A1(M) and Barnsdale Bar. You have that long drag up the hill and then just when traffic starts to pick up speed you have that absurd junction with the A639 and A6201 while southbound is the old services which should have been bulldozed 20 years ago. Both result in slow moving traffic lurching into lane 1 of the A1.

The GSV image shows all you need to know#https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.62695 ... authuser=0
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by owen b »

mehere wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 00:42 Wasn't that long ago there was talk of resurrecting The stretch from the End of the D2(M) To Grantham , and the stretch where the road comes from Corby ( cannot recall the number ) and meets the A1(T).
The Roads to Prosperity (1989) white paper proposed to improve the A1 as far north as Stamford to D3, but it wouldn't all have been motorway and it wouldn't have gone further towards Grantham.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris5156 »

Stevie D wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 21:25But the Don Valley viaduct looks like it is made of two separate bridges, which means that they couldn't be repurposed in the same way. And as we've already explored, there is no way that the existing viaduct could be safely made into 3 lanes each way at motorway speeds, even assuming that the structure is sound and could cope with the additional stresses.
The original M2 Medway Bridge was two parallel bridges, each carrying a single two lane carriageway plus hard shoulder. It was re-engineered about 15 years ago and now carries a single four lane carriageway with hard shoulder, and a new parallel bridge carries the opposite direction.

In other words: it probably could be repurposed in that way, if the will was there!
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by A9NWIL »

Chris5156 wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:47
Stevie D wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 21:25But the Don Valley viaduct looks like it is made of two separate bridges, which means that they couldn't be repurposed in the same way. And as we've already explored, there is no way that the existing viaduct could be safely made into 3 lanes each way at motorway speeds, even assuming that the structure is sound and could cope with the additional stresses.
The original M2 Medway Bridge was two parallel bridges, each carrying a single two lane carriageway plus hard shoulder. It was re-engineered about 15 years ago and now carries a single four lane carriageway with hard shoulder, and a new parallel bridge carries the opposite direction.

In other words: it probably could be repurposed in that way, if the will was there!
So what are you saying putting a new decking on that straddles the suppots of both bridges?
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by mehere »

I think that was done to one of the bridges on ,one of the Yorkshire A1 Motorway conversion ., May have even been the section that included the M1 extension, just my memory is so bad now.
I cannot recall . But I feel sure it was on a thread on here sometime or that section and read it in their newsletters ..
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Simon_GNR »

mehere wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 13:27 I think that was done to one of the bridges on ,one of the Yorkshire A1 Motorway conversion ., May have even been the section that included the M1 extension, just my memory is so bad now.
I cannot recall . But I feel sure it was on a thread on here sometime or that section and read it in their newsletters ..
I think you're thinking of the A1(M) around Wetherby, where the 1980's bridge over the River Wharfe, which formerly carried both D2 carriageways, was adapted to take just the n/b carriageway of the new D3M (inc hard shoulder), and a new bridge was built for the new s/b carriageway of the A1(M).
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Glenn A »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 08:31 It's a deal breaker as far as I can tell. There's no acceptable way you can widen the Donny Bypass to 3 lanes and not end up with a permanent 50 limit. And if you've got to replace critical structures as well the costs outweigh the benefits.
The Doncaster by pass is now 57 years old and maybe totally by passing it with a D3M would be the best answer. This would then leave the original by pass as a satisfactory local by pass, with long distance traffic using a new A1(M). Wonder what number the old A1(M) would use, as it's likely it would become non motorway.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by A9NWIL »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 14:37
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 08:31 It's a deal breaker as far as I can tell. There's no acceptable way you can widen the Donny Bypass to 3 lanes and not end up with a permanent 50 limit. And if you've got to replace critical structures as well the costs outweigh the benefits.
The Doncaster by pass is now 57 years old and maybe totally by passing it with a D3M would be the best answer. This would then leave the original by pass as a satisfactory local by pass, with long distance traffic using a new A1(M). Wonder what number the old A1(M) would use, as it's likely it would become non motorway.
Thats what I would do and make the old A1 from the Doncaster bypass to the A162/M62 junction an extension of the A162, the Doncaster bypass can then become the A162(M).
It would probably be a good idea to either add roundabouts to the old A1 along there or downgrade it to WS2, depending on how much traffic would be using it. I would make the links back to the new line A1(M) at the north end S2 if the old line is kept as D2 though, to discourage long distance traffic using it over the new route.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

lotrjw wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 14:53
Thats what I would do and make the old A1 from the Doncaster bypass to the A162/M62 junction an extension of the A162, the Doncaster bypass can then become the A162(M).
It would probably be a good idea to either add roundabouts to the old A1 along there or downgrade it to WS2, depending on how much traffic would be using it. I would make the links back to the new line A1(M) at the north end S2 if the old line is kept as D2 though, to discourage long distance traffic using it over the new route.
I would downgrade it to an all purpose A162. I dont think there are any AP crossings of the Don between Mexborough and central Doncaster except for the narrow bridge at Sprotborough and that has a 7.5 ton limit.
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