A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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L.J.D
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A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by L.J.D »

This section is a real death trap merging you practically take your life in your hands. Why is it on hold? The local authority network is all plugged in an connected in the Wakefield area. I drove on on this section a few months back and it's a death trap and Doncaster bypass too its a nasty road to be on!!
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ScottB5411
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by ScottB5411 »

You'll struggle to find anyone on these forums that disagrees with you. There are several thread on the subject, should you wish to search for them
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by M19 »

I find it one of those roads that's terrible, but when it is quiet, I enjoy driving that section.
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Osthagen
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Osthagen »

It is a nightmare. It really should be brought up to D3M standards.
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thatapanydude
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by thatapanydude »

Maybe this section should even be D4(M), especially if the current M1 is routed via Doncaster.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
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Berk
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

L.J.D wrote:This section is a real death trap merging you practically take your life in your hands. Why is it on hold? The local authority network is all plugged in an connected in the Wakefield area. I drove on on this section a few months back and it's a death trap and Doncaster bypass too its a nasty road to be on!!
McNessA720 wrote:It is a nightmare. It really should be brought up to D3M standards.
See, when I read things like this, I think “do you only drive on motorways?? You don’t seem to appreciate a lot of A-roads are worse than this. Much worse!!”

I won’t deny a lot of improvements need to be made, but it’s far from being severely unsafe. It’s not like the A18, or the Cat & Fiddle or something.
thatapanydude wrote:Maybe this section should even be D4(M), especially if the current M1 is routed via Doncaster.
Aye, that too.
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Berk
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

I would be interested to know how somewhere like Skellow is going to be bypassed. The A1 is still one of the main routes out of the village - it also used to have a right-turn in!! :shock:

(Now that was unsafe...)

I can sort of envisage a new-build A1(M) beginning from just south of Redhouse, heading due north and then weaving either side of the old A1 until it meets up at Darrington.

The old A1 could become an extension of the A162. Just keep it as it is, it won’t need expensive downgrading works. And to simplify the lot, I would not provide an A1(M) junction for Barnsdale Bar; that traffic can use the old road.
Last edited by Berk on Sun Dec 31, 2017 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Osthagen
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Osthagen »

Berk wrote:
McNessA720 wrote:It is a nightmare. It really should be brought up to D3M standards.
See, when I read things like this, I think “do you only drive on motorways?? You don’t seem to appreciate a lot of A-roads are worse than this. Much worse!!”
I don’t doubt that there are much worse A-roads than this section of A1. I’ve had experience with plenty of A-roads that are absolutely atrocious, 0arts of the A82 for example. It’s just that with the Darrington-Redhouse A1, you have an A-road that is bad, but it can very easily be upgraded.
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NICK 647063
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

I completely agree this section is now at least back in the roads program, it’s never been fantastic but with the new motorway sections getting plugged into this section of A1 it’s become terrible, yes there may be worse A roads as in more dangerous but it’s very rare to have a D2 taking the traffic this does, with private accesses, farm traffic and pedestrians, it really is the missing link!

As for some stating the M1 could be rerouted I really never see that happening, the M1 will always be the Leeds London motorway yes it might be a bit longer especially if the M1 is extended along the A1 north of Hook Moor but why would they want to improve this section then load it with even more traffic from the M1, the only real renumbering that is on the cards is the A1 north of hook Moor and even that’s not likely.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by wrinkly »

Berk wrote:I would be interested to know how somewhere like Skellow is going to be bypassed. The A1 is still one of the main routes out of the village - it also used to have a right-turn in!! :shock:

(Now that was unsafe...)

I can sort of envisage a new-build A1(M) beginning from just south of Redhouse, heading due north and then weaving either side of the old A1 until it meets up at Darrington.
I think in the 1990s plan the motorway ran adjacent to the west side of the A1 from Redhouse to Barnsdale Bar, squeezed under the existing A639 bridge like at the A61 and Catterick North, then along the east side of the A1, then due north from Wentbridge, passed east of Darrington and curved NW to join the present A1(M) just before the bridge that now carries the northbound A162.
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jackal
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

There was some speculation a while back about an outer bypass for Doncaster that would continue at both ends up the A1(M) Redhouse to Darrington and down a widened M18. If that had happened then maybe the M1 would be rerouted up this drastically improved route. But I've never heard anything official (even as a possible corridor) about this.

In the meantime a strategic link from M1 J35a across to the M18/A1(M) south of Doncaster seems to have made its way into the transpennine tunnel strategy. This would achieve a lot of the purpose of an outer Doncaster bypass despite being at right angles to it, in particular relieving the M1 at Tinsley Viaduct. Additionally the Donny bypass is to be ALRed online. Neither of these developments would make any sense were there any prospect of an outer Donny bypass plan, which is really what is needed for the M1 to be redirected (it can hardly be put up the existing bypass).

So even if there ever was serious thought given to moving the M1 onto the A1 line, that has been overtaken by events.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Stevie D »

Berk wrote:See, when I read things like this, I think “do you only drive on motorways?? You don’t seem to appreciate a lot of A-roads are worse than this. Much worse!!”

I won’t deny a lot of improvements need to be made, but it’s far from being severely unsafe. It’s not like the A18, or the Cat & Fiddle or something.
I disagree that the Cat & Fiddle is more dangerous than the A1 D2R.

In the last 5 years, the A1 between Darrington and Redhouse has seen 160 accidents and the A537 between the A54 and the edge of Macclesfield has seen 52 accidents. Now, given that the difference in volume of traffic, you might say that the Cat is clearly more dangerous ... and more of the accidents were classed as serious/fatal. But you have to look at the make-up of those accidents. On the Cat, more than half of the accidents were single-vehicle accidents, whereas less than 10% of those on the A1 were.

The majority of accidents on the Cat are caused by one driver going too fast on a road that is well known for having lots of tight bends. These bends are clearly marked, and there is no excuse for drivers going too fast. I have little time for spending excessive public money on preventing those kind of self-inflicted accidents.

The accidents on the A1, on the other hand, are much larger. On average, they involve more than 2½ vehicles, with 14 of them involving 5 or more vehicles, up to a maximum of 8 (two incidents). What that means is that, even if you are driving perfectly sensibly and well within the limits of what is safe, you are at a much higher risk of being collected in someone else's accident. The combination of the sheer volume of traffic and inadequate access points makes the road unavoidably dangerous ... and unlike roads like the Cat, you can't mitigate that danger just by slowing down, as if you slow down below the ambient speed or the truckers' limiters you are increasing the likelihood of conflicts. Not even counting farm access and very minor lanes, there are 6 or 7 access points in each direction where you have a turnout that you can't take at more than about 25mph and then an acceleration lane of only one or two hundred yards, and you're trying to join an exceptionally busy road, you're going to have a difficult job. And if you're merrily driving along when someone pulls out in front of you – or if you're alongside a lorry when someone pulls out in front of it – you can suddenly find yourself with nowhere to go.

There's nothing intrinsically dangerous about the A1 as a road – less than there is for the Cat – but the mismatch between the road design and the volume of traffic is what makes it a highly dangerous road.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Agreed, it just isn’t designed adequately for motorway levels of traffic. It might be safer as a new part of the A162.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Bryn666 »

I would contend that leaving the existing A1 in place and just building a new D2M up to Darrington might help balance the load somewhat.

The obsession with singling old routes makes sense if it is somewhere like the A74 but the A1 has many settlements and lots of local traffic, at that point arguably more than strategic which is mostly on the M1 avoiding the naffness of it all.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Berk wrote:Agreed, it just isn’t designed adequately for motorway levels of traffic. It might be safer as a new part of the A162.
Given that a LAR is going to be needed and that the old A1 (A1246) and the A162 merge before joining the current A1 at Darrington I would expect that to happen. At the very least the Unclassified roads and B roads that currently join the A1 using at grade junctions should connect to the new section of A162. There will still need to be a road to serve the communities of Wentbridge, Darrington, Skellow and Carcroft. The interesting question is will the road remain D2 or be downgraded to S2 or WS2.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Bryn666 wrote:I would contend that leaving the existing A1 in place and just building a new D2M up to Darrington might help balance the load somewhat.

The obsession with singling old routes makes sense if it is somewhere like the A74 but the A1 has many settlements and lots of local traffic, at that point arguably more than strategic which is mostly on the M1 avoiding the naffness of it all.
Exactly. :thumbsup:
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

Yes, offline D2M with no intermediate junctions, and the old road untouched, should be a lot more cost effective than the usual approach of D3M with intermediate junctions, and faffing about with the old road.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Stevie D »

Bryn666 wrote:I would contend that leaving the existing A1 in place and just building a new D2M up to Darrington might help balance the load somewhat.

The obsession with singling old routes makes sense if it is somewhere like the A74 but the A1 has many settlements and lots of local traffic, at that point arguably more than strategic which is mostly on the M1 avoiding the naffness of it all.
The main reason for singling the old road is that it takes up less land to build a triple-carriageway than a quadruple-carriageway. Much of the route can be rebuilt online, with the existing D2 being replaced by D3M+S2. This reduces not only purchase costs but also ongoing maintenance. It also allows the LAR to be laid out to a design appropriate to a 2018 LAR rather than a 1960 D2. In order to facilitate access, side roads and farm/factory entrances need to allow right-turning traffic rather than just being LILOs, but re-opening gaps in the central reservation would lead to decidedly sub-optimal junctions compared with rebuilding them as a single-carriageway with right-turn lanes designed to modern standards.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by wrinkly »

There are no central reservation gaps on the A1 between Redhouse and Darrington.

However if the motorway follows the previously proposed line, the remains of the present A1 will have to cross it somewhere. Last time round this was proposed to be by the existing Barnsdale Bar bridge. If the present A1 were to remain as a dual carriageway, a new dualled skew bridge would be required, plus suitable high-capacity junctions at each end, so probably much more expensive.
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Stevie D
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Stevie D »

wrinkly wrote:There are no central reservation gaps on the A1 between Redhouse and Darrington.
No ... because they were all stopped up and made into LILOs. But there are a number of side turnings and access points that would want two-way access restored if the road was by-passed. If the old road was just a LAR then there would no longer be a justification for banning right turns in and out of them, or straight across movements at crossroads ... but restoring those movements on a 70mph D2 would be far from ideal.
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