A1 Darrington to Redhouse

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Berk
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Stevie D wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 21:25 I've been using the D2R stretch most days this week, and there's one thing I've spotted that I don't recall seeing mentioned upthread.

The Wentbridge viaduct looks as though it is a single bridge that has a central reservation down the middle. That means that if required, it could be repurposed into one carriageway of a D3M, with a new bridge built alongside for the other carriageway. (I don't necessarily think that is sensible, because as I've said upthread, the LAR should bypass Wentbridge and the gradient coming off the viaduct northbound is far steeper than you want on a motorway, but it is an option).
That is a very intelligent proposal - if it was to be retained, one lane could become the ped/cycleway, although there’s probably enough room for s footpath too.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by M19 »

Would it make sense to coordinate planning of this route with planning for the the Trans-Pennine M67 which could potentially, in my view, connect across to the M180, creating a duplicate M62?

There's a few times, using the A1, I have bypassed the Darrington to Redhouse section by using the M62 and M18, because of severe congestion
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Was the M1 extension not supposed in part to relieve this part from long distance traffic? I guess it hasn't worked in that regard because if headed for the M1 South of Sheffield I'm still using the A1/M18 instead of taking the M1 from Hook Moor because of too many experiences of getting caught in heavy traffic around Leeds.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Mark Hewitt »

KeithW wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 22:11 Driving back from Kent to the NE on Friday I noticed the Don Bridge on the A1(M) has some new concrete barriers between lane 1 and the handrails. This would seem to preclude all lane running over the bridge, which IMHO is no bad thing as it would be darned dangerous. I do wonder what the implications for the much discussed plans to use the hard shoulder to provide 3 lanes.
That's temporary works isn't it? Looking on street view there's cones and 'works access' signs - unless they are there to install the barrier?
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 09:54 Was the M1 extension not supposed in part to relieve this part from long distance traffic? I guess it hasn't worked in that regard because if headed for the M1 South of Sheffield I'm still using the A1/M18 instead of taking the M1 from Hook Moor because of too many experiences of getting caught in heavy traffic around Leeds.
To be fair the traffic coming up the M1 from Sheffield has not really increased that much. What I think has happened is M62 traffic that used to carry on to Ferrybridge to pick up the A1 is now using the M1 extension. The last time I came through there traffic was queueing up to join the M1 while the M62 eastbound was flowing freely. The thing is the signs just show the M1 as a route to the North with the M62 being signed Hull and Pontefract.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.73435 ... authuser=1

Given that the M62/A1(M) junction is free flow I cant help feeling that not showing it as an alternate route to the North is a mistake. Knowing the road I stayed on the M62 which is about 7 miles longer but that day was a lot faster.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

KeithW wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 15:33 Given that the M62/A1(M) junction is free flow I cant help feeling that not showing it as an alternate route to the North is a mistake. Knowing the road I stayed on the M62 which is about 7 miles longer but that day was a lot faster.
Going Lofthouse->Hook Moor via Ferrybridge is actually twice as long though. As useful as it is when things have gone badly wrong on the M1, it's not really practicable to have permanent signage for redundancies or diversion routes. Perhaps it could be incorporated into electronic signage when appropriate though.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by wrinkly »

There are rotating-prsism VMS direction signs at the A1(M)-M1 southbound split and the A1(M)-168 northbound split.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

The problem is of course that the M1 has to TOTSO at Junction 43 so that a large volume of traffic already on the M1 mainline at Lofthouse has to move across to the left hand lanes in order to continue on the M1 towards the A1. Similarly, when you approach Lofthouse from Hook Moor, you have to move across to the right hand lanes to stay on the M1, and traffic leaving Leeds on the southbound M621 has to move across to the nearside lanes in order to join the eastbound M62. Ideally, the weaving section could have been made better if it had been braided, as happens at the Worsley interchange on the M61. It is no surprise therefore that the motorway between Lofthouse and Belle Isle is very congested in peak periods.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

One suspects HE will ultimately have to put in C/D lanes and/or braiding immediately north of Lofthouse. Possibly this will even be considered for the current Lofthouse improvement.

To their credit, the Lower Thames Crossing proposals include braiding and C/D lanes to deal with similar issues.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by A9NWIL »

KeithW wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 15:33
Mark Hewitt wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 09:54 Was the M1 extension not supposed in part to relieve this part from long distance traffic? I guess it hasn't worked in that regard because if headed for the M1 South of Sheffield I'm still using the A1/M18 instead of taking the M1 from Hook Moor because of too many experiences of getting caught in heavy traffic around Leeds.
To be fair the traffic coming up the M1 from Sheffield has not really increased that much. What I think has happened is M62 traffic that used to carry on to Ferrybridge to pick up the A1 is now using the M1 extension. The last time I came through there traffic was queueing up to join the M1 while the M62 eastbound was flowing freely. The thing is the signs just show the M1 as a route to the North with the M62 being signed Hull and Pontefract.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.73435 ... authuser=1

Given that the M62/A1(M) junction is free flow I cant help feeling that not showing it as an alternate route to the North is a mistake. Knowing the road I stayed on the M62 which is about 7 miles longer but that day was a lot faster.
Last year I was travelling from Scotland to Yorkshire down the A1/A1(M), I was planning on using the M1 at the diverge with the A1(M) but the matrix signs warned of an accident on the M1 and that the M1 was closed. Knowing that the A1(M) met the M62 at Ferrybridge and that I could get back round to the M62 I took the route you describe in reverse.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris56000 »

Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Chris56000 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 08:31 Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

Chris Williams

I thought April 1st was last Monday !

While closing entrances to roads may make them less congested the traffic does not evaporate.
The M1 from Leeds to Hook Moor already carries around 70k
The M18 carries 60k to the M62
The M62 westbound near Ferrybridge carries 60k

The A1/A1(M) carries 80k

All that reducing the capacity to handle that 80k to 20 k (your S2 ) will achieve is to produce permanent traffic congestion in the entire regional road network AND force 60,000 vehicles a day to take a 15 mile detour. Now I have made that detour when the Donny bypass was particularly busy but doing so with every other vehicle seems like a very bad idea. There is also the minor issue that the junctions, especially J35 are not up to handling that volume of turning traffic. It struggles with the 20k it handles now.

As for J36 that is rather important route carrying traffic from the southern side of Doncaster to the A1(M), throwing that 20 k or so of traffic down the A6182 to the M18 will not win you any popularity contests, J3 on the M18 is busy enough as it is.

What we need is more capacity not less.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

KeithW wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:33
Chris56000 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 08:31 Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

Chris Williams

I thought April 1st was last Monday !

While closing entrances to roads may make them less congested the traffic does not evaporate.
The M1 from Leeds to Hook Moor already carries around 70k
The M18 carries 60k to the M62
The M62 westbound near Ferrybridge carries 60k

The A1/A1(M) carries 80k

All that reducing the capacity to handle that 80k to 20 k (your S2 ) will achieve is to produce permanent traffic congestion in the entire regional road network AND force 60,000 vehicles a day to take a 15 mile detour. Now I have made that detour when the Donny bypass was particularly busy but doing so with every other vehicle seems like a very bad idea. There is also the minor issue that the junctions, especially J35 are not up to handling that volume of turning traffic. It struggles with the 20k it handles now.

As for J36 that is rather important route carrying traffic from the southern side of Doncaster to the A1(M), throwing that 20 k or so of traffic down the A6182 to the M18 will not win you any popularity contests, J3 on the M18 is busy enough as it is.

What we need is more capacity not less.
Such an idea would force all long distance strategic traffic between London/the Midlands and Tyneside to use the M1 past Sheffield, as the M18 and M62 would be a much longer route. Hence you would have even more HGV's in the already very busy weaving section between the M62 at Lofthouse and the M621.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Chris56000 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 08:31 Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

Chris Williams
Why should these changes be done before the new road is ready?? And why does the current A1(M) need to lose a lane?? Whether it needs to stay primary or not is another debate...
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

Chris Williams
I’m still trying to work out if this is a serious post!

I live next to this section of the A1 and it’s badly congested and accident prone due to it running over capacity but how can you suggest putting all the traffic off the busiest road in the area onto other roads, that would cripple the area, just look at the the congestion that occurs around Doncaster when the A1 is closed by an accident, what’s needed is this A1 upgrade getting pushed through as a priority.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 20:20
Hi!

How about signing south strategic & HGV traffic from Doncaster via M18 & M1, north via M18 & M62, close the northbound A1(M) sliproads @ j35 & j37, close off J36 altogether, downgrade the A1(M) to A162 non-primary all purpose, de–dual the A1 from J35 to Darrington with roundabouts for the local accesses and reducing the J35 – Darrington stretch to 50 with a 7.5T weight prohibition?

That would solve most of the horrendous problems along that section of route until a new offline A1(M) to replace it can be designed and constructed!

Chris Williams
I’m still trying to work out if this is a serious post!

I live next to this section of the A1 and it’s badly congested and accident prone due to it running over capacity but how can you suggest putting all the traffic off the busiest road in the area onto other roads, that would cripple the area, just look at the the congestion that occurs around Doncaster when the A1 is closed by an accident, what’s needed is this A1 upgrade getting pushed through as a priority.
What has been proposed would have unwanted ripple effects.

For instance, if you were travelling up the northbound A1 from East Anglia heading towards somewhere in North Yorkshire east of the A1(M) e.g. York, Scarborough, Whitby, and you had to use the M18 as far as the M62 junction, would you turn back westwards on the M62 to rejoin the A1(M) only to turn northeast a few miles later at Bramham to join the A64, or would you follow the signs for York at the end of the M18 to join the eastbound M62 and use the A63/A19 to reach the A64, saving 15 miles in the process?
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Fenlander »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 20:34For instance, if you were travelling up the northbound A1 from East Anglia heading towards somewhere in North Yorkshire east of the A1(M) e.g. York, Scarborough, Whitby, and you had to use the M18 as far as the M62 junction, would you turn back westwards on the M62 to rejoin the A1(M) only to turn northeast a few miles later at Bramham to join the A64, or would you follow the signs for York at the end of the M18 to join the eastbound M62 and use the A63/A19 to reach the A64, saving 15 miles in the process?
Me waves back. I’m basically doing that for a few days away just outside Scarborough in the May half term, I’ve had a quick look at the map and A1 & A64 looks longish & dull, straight up the A14, Humber Bridge & up a bit more looks shorter no way would I think zig zagging around Doncaster would fit in the route.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Fenlander wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 21:07 Me waves back. I’m basically doing that for a few days away just outside Scarborough in the May half term, I’ve had a quick look at the map and A1 & A64 looks longish & dull, straight up the A14, Humber Bridge & up a bit more looks shorter no way would I think zig zagging around Doncaster would fit in the route.
I assume you mean the A15 rather than the A14 and having done it I can tell you its more boring than the A1 and a lot slower :) South of Lincoln its really quite narrow, overtaking opportunities are rare and between Folkingham and Peterbrough you end up ploughing through urban areas although Market Deeping is bypassed,

What you could try is A1 to Newark, A46 to Lincoln and then A15 to the Humber Bridge. On the north side of the bridge there is a park and it has access to the bridge viewing area
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by c2R »

It depends where you're coming from, but if you want to make a day of it and experience some lovely little villages and beautiful scenery try

A16 - Boston - B1183 - Horncastle - A158 - Baumber - B1225 - Caistor - A1173 - Fonaby Top - unclassified - Humberside airport - A18 - Barnetby Top.

If you're really feeling adventurous, and have a lot of time to spare, tack the entire of the B1040 from Biggeslwade to the front of the journey.

The Red Lion at Revesby, Lincs, does good pub food.
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Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Fenlander »

I’m starting from Spalding so can head straight to Bourne and do A15 up (I was raised in Bourne and went to Hull uni so did that route a few times), A52 to Osbournby or A17 to Sleaford for the A15 and beyond.
I can also follow those routes and carry on past the A15 to join the A1 and head north.
There also an eastern option up Lincolnshire on the A16 bit that’s likely to be a slog too.
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