A1 Darrington to Redhouse

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Fenlander wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 09:18 I’m starting from Spalding so can head straight to Bourne and do A15 up (I was raised in Bourne and went to Hull uni so did that route a few times), A52 to Osbournby or A17 to Sleaford for the A15 and beyond.
I can also follow those routes and carry on past the A15 to join the A1 and head north.
There also an eastern option up Lincolnshire on the A16 bit that’s likely to be a slog too.
That being the case I would definitely take the A15 to the Humber Bridge head up past Beverley and up the coast, not only will you avoid the Doncaster Bypass but also the Hopgrove roundabout at York. The route is shorter and almost certainly quicker.
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by c2R »

The route I suggest is only a slog from Spalding to Boston, after that it's definintely more interesting than the A15 or up the coast!
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Chris56000
Member
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 21:16
Location: Walsall Wood, WALSALL, West Midlands

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris56000 »

Hi!

When it comes to traffic planning these days LAs and developers are more interested in causing potential gridlock rather than upgrading capacity – when has a major house builder contributed/paid for a GSJ? – as witnessed by Birmingham CC's removal of Masshouse Circus and the remainder of the eastern I.R.R.

I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".

Wing on the A418 is another long–standing notorious problem with no solution, and for many years I thought Baldock was another, but that one did get a proper solution!

Chris Williams
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by c2R »

Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58
When it comes to traffic planning these days LAs and developers are more interested in causing potential gridlock rather than upgrading capacity – when has a major house builder contributed/paid for a GSJ?
Cambourne, Cambridgeshire is the last significant piece of infrastructure that I can think of, although part of the business case for the A14 improvement is to facilitate some lovely car dependent development.

I suspect there is also development money going in to the M11 J7a as well as the new M49 junction.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7539
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58 I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".
Darrington-Redhouse is expected to start construction in the next six years. Whether that happens or not, it's not currently considered 'too expensive and difficult'.
Hdeng16
Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 20:47

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Hdeng16 »

jackal wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 08:44
Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58 I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".
Darrington-Redhouse is expected to start construction in the next six years. Whether that happens or not, it's not currently considered 'too expensive and difficult'.
Indeed. In fact it could probably be described as easy in comparison to Doncaster bypass.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58 Hi!

When it comes to traffic planning these days LAs and developers are more interested in causing potential gridlock rather than upgrading capacity – when has a major house builder contributed/paid for a GSJ? – as witnessed by Birmingham CC's removal of Masshouse Circus and the remainder of the eastern I.R.R.

I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".

Wing on the A418 is another long–standing notorious problem with no solution, and for many years I thought Baldock was another, but that one did get a proper solution!

Chris Williams
Redhouse to Darrington is in RIS 2 as I recall and it along with improving the Doncaster bypass is regarded as a priority in HE development strategy. Its hardly surprising given that they have double the traffic levels of Balcock to Alconbury. In fact the Baldock to Alconbury section is of very uneven quality. Replace the roundabouts at Biggleswade with a basic GSJ and the Baldock to section to the Caldecotes is pretty decent. Given that there are plans for a major development at Caldecote creating a GSJ and LAR seems like an opportunity to get a developer contribution. I seem to recall developer contributions were made towards the cost of the GSJ's at Cambourne and Caldecote when the A428 was dualled to Caxton Gibbet. Apart from that that I suspect the best that can be expected as things stand are local bypasses of Sandy , the Kelpie Marine boatyard and Buckden now that the Black Cat issue has finally been settled. That is by far the biggest source of congestion.

As for the A64 from the east of Hopgrove the worst of the problems in my experience are along the short stretch from Hopgrove to North Lane, once you get past the Highwayman Cafe it usually flows reasonably well. It would be nice to to see dualling as far as Barton Le Willows but IMHO the priority in Ryedale should be a bypass of Pickering where traffic can queue for miles, pedestrian safety is poor and air quality in summer is awful. Think of how Malton was before the bypass opened.
Fenlander
Member
Posts: 7794
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 21:54
Location: south Lincolnshire

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Fenlander »

jackal wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 08:44
Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58 I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".
Darrington-Redhouse is expected to start construction in the next six years. Whether that happens or not, it's not currently considered 'too expensive and difficult'.
That sounds a bit like the new relief road for Spalding (they make a big point of saying it will bypass the town while at the same time saying it's not a bypass), they will build the north end to enable more housing, they will build the south end to enable more housing but there's nothing more than a vague "we'll join the 2 bits somehow" to actually provide any sort of relief/bypass/alternative route.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7539
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by jackal »

Fenlander wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:55
jackal wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 08:44
Chris56000 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 22:58 I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult".
Darrington-Redhouse is expected to start construction in the next six years. Whether that happens or not, it's not currently considered 'too expensive and difficult'.
That sounds a bit like the new relief road for Spalding (they make a big point of saying it will bypass the town while at the same time saying it's not a bypass), they will build the north end to enable more housing, they will build the south end to enable more housing but there's nothing more than a vague "we'll join the 2 bits somehow" to actually provide any sort of relief/bypass/alternative route.
Not sure if you meant to reply to me? In any case, Darrington to Redhouse is a very well defined scheme and is already in development, it's just technically not committed yet as RIS2 isn't announced. Short of a change of government that should be a mere formality.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

As for the A64 from the east of Hopgrove the worst of the problems in my experience are along the short stretch from Hopgrove to North Lane, once you get past the Highwayman Cafe it usually flows reasonably well. It would be nice to to see dualling as far as Barton Le Willows but IMHO the priority in Ryedale should be a bypass of Pickering where traffic can queue for miles, pedestrian safety is poor and air quality in summer is awful. Think of how Malton was before the bypass opened.
Although a Pickering bypass would be useful I really don’t think you can compare to the A64 dualling needs, I’ve travelled the A170 many times and yes it’s busy in summer but only rarely do the queues now go back far sometimes to Middleton but only at Bank holidays the new traffic lights seem to get traffic through better....

It’s a fact that an improved A64 would also pull some traffic away from the A170 as when the A64 is congested the matrix signs on the A1(M) around Bramham warn of delays which can lead to many heading north and going via Thirsk and the A170 to Scarborough causing issues as you say in Pickering but with an improved A64 that wouldn’t happen...

I was actually on the A64 today and it’s school holidays and it was congested as you say the bottleneck is getting into 1 lane after Hopgrove once past The highwayman it gets moving but is congested to Barton le willows, it’s also bad the other direction and also on the single section around Welburn, it needs sorting, for me a priority more than Pickering would be Rillington on the A64 it’s a village split by a trunk road, accidents are often and like today congested I feel sorry for the residents, that place needs a bypass.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

I think Darrington–Redhouse & Baldock–Alconbury on the A1 and York–Malton on the A64 are projects that most of us are not likely to see in the remainder of our driving careers as they will always be considered " too expensive and difficult
I think both we will see well I’m in my 30’s so definitely hope to see in my driving lifetime, both schemes were mentioned in Roads period 2, the A64 one was down as Hopgrove GSJ but now looking like dualling instead, of course both schemes could yet be delayed or cancelled but from my point of view both roads you mention are so bad that they can’t be left for decades without improvement.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by NICK 647063 »

Quite interesting on the way home tonight yet another accident near Darrington causing huge delays on the A1 it was back past J37 on the A1(M) Doncaster bypass but what was most interesting approaching on the M18 towards the A1(M) the matrix signs were saying “A1 J39 to J40 accident” now we don’t have a J39 Redhouse is J38 and the M62 is J41, so it seems Highways England are a little confused.
Robert Kilcoyne
Member
Posts: 966
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:41
Location: Birmingham

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

NICK 647063 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 18:03 Quite interesting on the way home tonight yet another accident near Darrington causing huge delays on the A1 it was back past J37 on the A1(M) Doncaster bypass but what was most interesting approaching on the M18 towards the A1(M) the matrix signs were saying “A1 J39 to J40 accident” now we don’t have a J39 Redhouse is J38 and the M62 is J41, so it seems Highways England are a little confused.
The matrix sign should surely have said "A1 accident between A639 and A162"; drivers would have at least been able to work out roughly where the delays would be from their satnavs.
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

It’s a bit like the southern section of the A1 (from Alconbury - Stotfold), people are increasingly making use of ‘virtual’ junction numbers, on the assumption that that’s where they would go.

It does the job.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by KeithW »

NICK 647063 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 18:03 Quite interesting on the way home tonight yet another accident near Darrington causing huge delays on the A1 it was back past J37 on the A1(M) Doncaster bypass but what was most interesting approaching on the M18 towards the A1(M) the matrix signs were saying “A1 J39 to J40 accident” now we don’t have a J39 Redhouse is J38 and the M62 is J41, so it seems Highways England are a little confused.
Darrington is J40 as I recall and Barnsdale Bar is J39
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _Junctions
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Makes you wonder if Wentbridge and the B-Road would have to be accessed via the LAR.

Still, that’s no different to further up (apart from adding more miles on).

My folks like to visit Wentbridge, they stop at the hotel for coffee. Not sure if they’d still do that if you had to turn off 10 miles before to get on the LAR first.
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16896
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris5156 »

KeithW wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 21:00Darrington is J40 as I recall and Barnsdale Bar is J39
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _Junctions
No, Barnsdale Bar doesn't have a junction number - it might be the obvious place for J39, but no J39 has ever been allocated on the A1. There's just a gap between 38 and 40. The page you linked to on the wiki makes no mention of J39.

If and when the Red House - Darrington motorway upgrade happens, there's likely to be just one intermediate junction somewhere around Barnsdale Bar, which would surely be J39. But right now the number is not used and doesn't appear on signs or maps.
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Darrington wouldn’t merit a junction then?? So, how is one supposed to turn off there?? You might be able to hit the LAR coming from the north, but from the south??

I know, turn off 10 miles earlier, and use the LAR instead. 🤨
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16896
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Chris5156 »

Berk wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 22:56Darrington wouldn’t merit a junction then?? So, how is one supposed to turn off there?? You might be able to hit the LAR coming from the north, but from the south??
No, Darrington wouldn't merit a junction with an upgraded A1(M), any more than any other village on an unclassified road would.
User avatar
Berk
Member
Posts: 9779
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:36
Location: somewhere in zone 1

Re: A1 Darrington to Redhouse

Post by Berk »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 00:35
Berk wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 22:56Darrington wouldn’t merit a junction then?? So, how is one supposed to turn off there?? You might be able to hit the LAR coming from the north, but from the south??
No, Darrington wouldn't merit a junction with an upgraded A1(M), any more than any other village on an unclassified road would.
It’s amazing how some people can take a stance this is a brand new motorway that has never existed before - and therefore doesn’t need any junctions.

Of course you’re not going to have direct access, or junctions everywhere, but there are so few of them on the A1(M), it looks like a deliberate choice not to have them.

At least, not any closer than 10 miles. 5 miles might’ve been more appropriate. The motorway grew out of the trunk road, it wasn’t purpose-built (like the M1, M6 etc.).

There’s actually a very good reason for having a junction close by. Pontefract does not have an A1(M) junction. The only junction it has is J32 M62 (or 33 at a pinch). So it would provide more choice, and avoid a circuitous way round.
Post Reply