M27 smartification

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B4444
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M27 smartification

Post by B4444 »

Signs have gone up stating work will start next week until 2021. Convert hard shoulder to 4th lane from J4 (M3) to J11 (Fareham). I've only ever found congestion between 0600 and 0900 and 1600 to 1900, Monday to Friday, so I'm surprised the £246m is a cost-effective.
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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Johnathan404 »

I knew this was coming but didn't realise it was so imminent. I remember seeing the plans for VSL in 2010. Is the M3 not next?

The morning rush hour tends to clear at about 10:00, but otherwise you're right. The problem is generally queues to leave the motorway, but the works will be needed to support developments at Hedge End and Fareham ("Whiteley II"). Can't they do the works to ruin J10 at the same time?

The ability to manage incidents better will be a bonus, but obviously not as good as a new bridge over the Itchen and the Hamble.

They have really missed a trick not extending the works one mile easy to meet up with the westbound climbing lane. The lane drop queues through both rush hours (although again some of this will be people preparing to leave the motorway at J11).
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jackal
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by jackal »

Johnathan404 wrote:Is the M3 not next?
The schedule is:

M27 J4-11 Spring 2018 - Spring 2021
M3 J9-14 Spring 2020 - Spring 2022
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by mikehindsonevans »

jackal wrote:
Johnathan404 wrote:Is the M3 not next?
The schedule is:

M27 J4-11 Spring 2018 - Spring 2021
M3 J9-14 Spring 2020 - Spring 2022
Don't forget the "third horseman of the South Hampshire Apocalypse" - the long-overdue and desperately-needed upgrade of the regularly-overwhelmed M3J9/A34/A33 mega-mess, being rebuilt from 2021(-ish) onwards.

This "perfect storm" has been noticed by the local newspapers such as the "Hampshire Chronicle". Specific attention is drawn to the pathetically-long distances between refuge areas on current SMART completed jobs.

I look forward to 2023. I remember commuting from Winchester to Portsmouth in 1986 along the (then-) recently-completed M27. If you could see ten cars in your field of view as you approached M27j10/j11 heading eastbound, you had a busy day. I wish HE well with the Smartification and hope that they can apply all the lessons from the over-running M3J4a-j2 fiasco when they plan, develop and implement this work.

"No lane drops in SMART projects"

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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

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I don't have much experience with the M3 before the work, but I do know that one of the biggest problems on the M27 is that exiting and carrying-on traffic mix in lane one. This means that as you approach the exit, everybody piles in to lane one, bringing that lane down to 40mph. That prompts a few vehicles (maybe a single HGV) to move out in to lane two who will then bring that lane down to their speed. After the exit, lane one clears, and the HGV starts to get undertaken, which has caused a few accidents as it tries to move back over.

This happens at J9 westbound, J9 eastbound, J8 westbound (especially bad because it's a steep uphill), J7 eastbound and J5 westbound.

Incidentally, the fact the project page stresses the hard shoulders will be maintained between J7 and J8 suggests there will be lane drops at both of those junctions. Otherwise you could have a nice bit of D5 ALR, even though I think that would cause problems at the two merges as you would have a lot of traffic and not a lot of merging space.

West of J5 traffic levels are relatively low. I'm sure at one point the plan was to end the works at J5. The only problems with J4-5 are the volume of traffic joining at J5 eastbound (solved with a lane gain) and tailbacks from the M3. However another 2+2 split at J4 westbound will be nice.

The close frequency of the junctions will be taken as a reason to skimp on ERAs. I reckon you'll get one at J9-10 eastbound, one each side of J8-9, and one each side of J5-7. The numerous gantries and signs will mean an almost-continuous barrier. If they really wanted to they could use the land for the abandoned sliproad to create another half-mile of hard shoulder - it shouldn't cost much because they're taking down the central barriers anyway - but I bet it won't happen.

I am concerned that in addition to the conflicts raised above, this scheme will coincide with Highways England's major work on the other crossing of the Itchen, the A3024. If nothing else, where will they get all the contractors from?
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jackal
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by jackal »

Johnathan404 wrote:Incidentally, the fact the project page stresses the hard shoulders will be maintained between J7 and J8 suggests there will be lane drops at both of those junctions.
I don't think you can read too much into that. D5ALR wasn't a permissible configuration when this scheme was being designed, so that section had to stay D4M whether it was D3M or D4ALR through the junctions either side. The 'trial run' for D5ALR is M25 J15-16, which isn't due to start until 2020/21.
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by GeekyJames »

This scheme is now open for consultation which is strange as there's already signs up announcing the start of work?

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... -motorway/

Personally I think it's a waste of money, it would be better to improve some of the junctions (i.e Junction 9) and local roads to prevent junction hopping
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by GeekyJames »

Highways England have now issued plans for the M27 Smart motorway works - I'm surprised this is ALR as I thought the hard shoulder would only be used during congestion.

http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... +reviw.pdf

Construction is planned to begin in winter 2018/2019 and the smart motorway is expected
to be open to traffic in spring 2021.

The project involves:
„ Permanent conversion of the hard shoulder to create a fourth lane and changing the
junction slip roads to accommodate this.
„ New CCTV cameras and electronic information signs and signals on gantries — these
will show variable mandatory speed limits and manage traffic flow and incidents.
„ Installation of a reinforced barrier to improve safety.
„ There will be 13 new emergency areas within the M27 junctions 4 to 11 smart motorway
scheme. Hard shoulders can also be used where available (junctions 7 to 8)
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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Johnathan404 »

Highways England wrote:Drivers are enjoying the benefits of smart motorways across the country without safety being adversely affected
Wow they are brave! They could say smart motorways are better if they have the figures to back that up (and this isn't the thread to analyse that statement), but to say drivers are "enjoying" the new motorways is both irritating and misguided.

There are some signs that they have learned lessons from the M3 and M60 disasters. A contra-flow is being used which may allow more work to get done. Also construction has been broken down into four phases, reducing the length of the restrictions and the strain on resources (I suspect it also makes the contra-flow a lot easier to manage as it won't straddle so many junctions).

My concern is what will happen between the construction at J4 finishing in 2019 and the new layout being activated in 2021.

The leaflet also plays down the impact of night-time closures, which will be interesting to test. The M27 frequently closes at night anyway. There is going to be one weekend closure at Fareham though, which will be "interesting".

It was nice to see a section of the exhibition dedicated to the "M27 concrete problem". Their wording is very odd: they say they have uncovered a number of problems, but then go on to detail what they've been testing rather than what they've found. They also act like this is a new issue and not something that has been postponed for the last 20 years.

Finally, I want to have another dig at the emergency crossover that was installed in 2011. At the time the cones were put out to install the thing - which the Highways Agency said was great news for motorists because it would revolutionise incident management - I remarked that there was no way it would ever be use. It is now going to have to be ripped up as part of the central reservation replacement. Any reports of it having being used? :roll:
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Bertiebus
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Bertiebus »

Re: M27 smartification
What the....?

I mean, 'signalised' is terrible English, but 'smartification' takes things down to a whole new level... :yuck:
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by sotonsteve »

Johnathan404 wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 22:54 Finally, I want to have another dig at the emergency crossover that was installed in 2011. At the time the cones were put out to install the thing - which the Highways Agency said was great news for motorists because it would revolutionise incident management - I remarked that there was no way it would ever be use. It is now going to have to be ripped up as part of the central reservation replacement. Any reports of it having being used? :roll:
That would be a very good Freedom of Information request to make. I never recall it being used. It cost something like £250k. Other interesting questions to go with this would be:

1. how many emergency crossovers exist on the English trunk road network?
2. how many times have emergency crossovers been opened up since Highways England's creation in April 2015?
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Paul7755 »

Will there still be normal 3 lane sections between J11 and J12, ie apart from where there are existing crawler lanes?

Includes replacement of a ‘bridal way bridge’ :shock:

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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Johnathan404 »

Paul7755 wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 18:07 Will there still be normal 3 lane sections between J11 and J12, ie apart from where there are existing crawler lanes?
Yes. Which is insane because that section suffers from much more congestion than J8 to J11 does (aside from the queue to come off at J9 which is being tackled under a separate project).

All it would take is 1.5 miles of extra ALR (out of a 23-mile project) to eliminate the ridiculous lane drops. It's such an easy goal I can only assume it is being ignored to avoid the embarrassment that the road was only re-built 10 years ago.
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Big L »

Bertiebus wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 14:25
Re: M27 smartification
What the....?

I mean, 'signalised' is terrible English, but 'smartification' takes things down to a whole new level... :yuck:
I think it's a Sabre word, and has roots connected to railway electrification.
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by sotonsteve »

The section from Junction 11 to 12 is busier than the section between junction 8 to 11, and comparable with junction 4 to 5 and junction 7 to 8. It is 100% absurd that Highways England is cutting the scheme short at junction 11. In the morning peak heading eastbound, bar some congestion around junction 9 which is due to the junction itself, the only bit of M27 that queues east of the M3 is between j11 and j12.
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by B4444 »

Real work starts (as in cameras turned on), from January 7th until 2020/21. Hard shoulder turned into running lane J4 to J11. Cost now down to £244m.
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Peter Freeman »

Big L wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 19:38
Bertiebus wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 14:25
Re: M27 smartification
What the....?

I mean, 'signalised' is terrible English, but 'smartification' takes things down to a whole new level... :yuck:
I think it's a Sabre word, and has roots connected to railway electrification.
Bertiebus, you made exactly the same point two years ago, when you wrote "I can't believe that I have just read the word 'smartification". The lexicographical legitimacy of this word, and others, including 'signalised', was exhaustively discussed, probably in that very thread: search. There's nothing wrong with either of them.
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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Johnathan404 »

SPECS are up between J4 and the Hamble Bridge. Long sections of the hard shoulder line around J4 and J5 have been removed, with a new edge line painted and lots of cones around the junctions and the J4 sliproads. The traffic management on the M3 southbound starts surprisingly early, presumably to allow for a new gantry or two on the approach.

Lots of portable VMS have appeared between J3 and J11 and long lengths of new Armco have been added along the verge.

I was looking at the merge at J4 which doesn't have a lot of space as it is, and this could become quite hairy. Likewise the merge at J5 eastbound currently takes away a long section of hard shoulder which won't be available during the roadworks or afterwards.

Finally I do think it's a bit silly that there are signs all over the motorway saying 'Work starts here March 2018 until Spring 2021' and yet nothing much has happened yet. People will be getting a shock on Tuesday morning!
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Nicholas »

Johnathan404 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 16:24 Finally I do think it's a bit silly that there are signs all over the motorway saying 'Work starts here March 2018 until Spring 2021' and yet nothing much has happened yet. People will be getting a shock on Tuesday morning!
Especially when it is still dark and nobody can see the lines! That's one thing I hate about temporary traffic management, as there are no reflective studs and the lines are often nearly impossible to make out (or you get confused where the previous lines are still evident).
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Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification

Post by Johnathan404 »

As you might expect, no action today, despite considerable media coverage about the restrictions having gone live this morning.

The portable VMSs were all switched on today to say, "take extra care through roadworks".

A couple more 'queues likely' signs have appeared westbound approaching J5. They're not kidding, it's bad enough under normal conditions.

Tonight it's going to be closed eastbound between J4 and J7. Tomorrow night it's going to be closed westbound from J5 to J4. This, coupled with the limited preparation works described above, makes me wonder whether the first phase of works will only be from J4 to just beyond J5 after all. This would support an early plan I remember seeing (probably linked to in this thread), but would contradict all of Highways England's press releases.

While attempting to answer that point, I have discovered this:
"[In 2008] due to the proposed implementation of a climbing lane between junctions 11 and 12, the decision was taken to progress with that scheme. The section has therefore already benefitted from enhanced capacity for nearly 10 years."
At the time of that scheme, I said that the new capacity was insufficient, and was told it was all the budget would cover. Now we are told that further improvements can't be made because J11-12 has already had one scheme.
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