M27 smartification
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- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
Finally managed to get some photos of the works, though it is mostly just central reservation work. I would however like to repeat my rant about the road signs.
When the works started the contractor went out and placed a temporary sign next to every single permanent sign. Now I appreciate that eventually the permanent signs will all be taken down, but we are nine months in and that hasn't happened yet. Sure it's better to be early than late, but these temporary signs are just getting in the way of the much bigger permanent signs, they contain different information, and why couldn't normal signs have been used?
See the examples below. In picture 4, the sign is pretty useless (almost every junction has something to do with the A27), and it has a different mileage to the sign it is stood right next to.
In picture 5, the weird temporary sign is completely obstructing the standard sign. It's like this over all the way along: you can see another one obstructing the 200 yards sign.
In picture 2, you can see the two exit signs (I appreciate it has been scaled down a lot for SABRE) - this isn't so bad because the permanent sign is on a tall pole, but at other junctions the permanent sign is blocked by the unusual junction number sign.
Meanwhile in picture 1 we have a flashing sign to warn workers of the overhead cables. Every time I have driven past I have found this distracting: it looks a lot like a modern warning sign, so I instinctively try to read the message. But I'm sure it's necessary - perhaps all the multi-coloured cones (red, green, yellow and blue) aren't enough!
The roadworks have really brought home just how densely-packed this road can be - these photos were taken on Saturday evening. I'm looking forward to the extra lane providing a little more room.
However, I'm deeply concerned about the number of breakdowns blocking live lanes during the roadworks. During peak hours it's usually two a day. I'm sure we've had this concern with smart motorway roadworks before and I realise the extra lane and traffic management will help manage lane block congestion, but it's still an alarming premonition. What if there are disruptive breakdowns every day when the roadworks finish too?
When the works started the contractor went out and placed a temporary sign next to every single permanent sign. Now I appreciate that eventually the permanent signs will all be taken down, but we are nine months in and that hasn't happened yet. Sure it's better to be early than late, but these temporary signs are just getting in the way of the much bigger permanent signs, they contain different information, and why couldn't normal signs have been used?
See the examples below. In picture 4, the sign is pretty useless (almost every junction has something to do with the A27), and it has a different mileage to the sign it is stood right next to.
In picture 5, the weird temporary sign is completely obstructing the standard sign. It's like this over all the way along: you can see another one obstructing the 200 yards sign.
In picture 2, you can see the two exit signs (I appreciate it has been scaled down a lot for SABRE) - this isn't so bad because the permanent sign is on a tall pole, but at other junctions the permanent sign is blocked by the unusual junction number sign.
Meanwhile in picture 1 we have a flashing sign to warn workers of the overhead cables. Every time I have driven past I have found this distracting: it looks a lot like a modern warning sign, so I instinctively try to read the message. But I'm sure it's necessary - perhaps all the multi-coloured cones (red, green, yellow and blue) aren't enough!
The roadworks have really brought home just how densely-packed this road can be - these photos were taken on Saturday evening. I'm looking forward to the extra lane providing a little more room.
However, I'm deeply concerned about the number of breakdowns blocking live lanes during the roadworks. During peak hours it's usually two a day. I'm sure we've had this concern with smart motorway roadworks before and I realise the extra lane and traffic management will help manage lane block congestion, but it's still an alarming premonition. What if there are disruptive breakdowns every day when the roadworks finish too?
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Re: M27 smartification
Disruptive breakdowns on smart motorways aren't usually a problem. The issue I find is on the M6 scheme J13-J15 that there is a breakdown in the roadworks every Friday which causes chaos. People always seem to break down in roadworks more than say standard dual carriageways and I can't understand why.
Re: M27 smartification
Probably confirmation bias.brummie_rob wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 15:07 Disruptive breakdowns on smart motorways aren't usually a problem. The issue I find is on the M6 scheme J13-J15 that there is a breakdown in the roadworks every Friday which causes chaos. People always seem to break down in roadworks more than say standard dual carriageways and I can't understand why.
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Re: M27 smartification
Is there a free recovery service available?? Does it look like these incidents are (lack of) fuel-related??
- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
Highways England's November 2019 newsletter states that work between J4 and J8 has now progressed to the verge, having completed the barrier. The Highways England website states (as it has done at least since December): "We’re continuing to undertake works ... in the verge sections between junctions 4 and 8." Elsewhere, I seem to recall they stated that they would be changing the traffic management so they could work on the verges in early February 2020.
Yet, as this CCTV image of J5-7 which was taken today (to illustrate a breakdown) shows, the central barrier is not complete and work is not taking place on the verges - beyond the removal of old road signs under night-time closures. Having driven the whole road a few weeks ago, I can confirm the J5-J8 was entirely like this, it's just difficult to get a clear view. It's all a bit odd. The removal of the old central reservation took place in February 2019. I seem to recall that in 2008 they were able to replace the barrier and widen the entire road by traditional means between J3 and J4 in the same amount of time.
Meanwhile, it seems the schedule provided to the public and media during the exhibition events really has gone out the window. Work between J4 and J5 started two months late - these things happen - but it was supposed to be totally finished in September 2019. In reality they only finished the new central reservation in October 2019, and still had all the verge work to do.
While that's a bit annoying, it is not necessarily a problem. The contractors are allowed to change their schedule if they've found a better way of managing the project as a whole. For example, they made a big fuss about how this project was going to be delivered with a contraflow, but evidently that isn't going to happen. The problem is that by only providing the public with information that is blatantly wrong - saying you've finished with things that you haven't - the public are left second-guessing whether there's a problem or not.
After all, the public aren't actually interested in whether you're working on the drains, the tarmac or a gantry. All they want to know is whether it's going to finish on time, early or late.
Speaking of communication - I notice that Highways England have finally shut that weird Commonplace page they were running. They do, I'm sure, thank you for your feedback, even though most of it was hysterical rants.
Yet, as this CCTV image of J5-7 which was taken today (to illustrate a breakdown) shows, the central barrier is not complete and work is not taking place on the verges - beyond the removal of old road signs under night-time closures. Having driven the whole road a few weeks ago, I can confirm the J5-J8 was entirely like this, it's just difficult to get a clear view. It's all a bit odd. The removal of the old central reservation took place in February 2019. I seem to recall that in 2008 they were able to replace the barrier and widen the entire road by traditional means between J3 and J4 in the same amount of time.
Meanwhile, it seems the schedule provided to the public and media during the exhibition events really has gone out the window. Work between J4 and J5 started two months late - these things happen - but it was supposed to be totally finished in September 2019. In reality they only finished the new central reservation in October 2019, and still had all the verge work to do.
While that's a bit annoying, it is not necessarily a problem. The contractors are allowed to change their schedule if they've found a better way of managing the project as a whole. For example, they made a big fuss about how this project was going to be delivered with a contraflow, but evidently that isn't going to happen. The problem is that by only providing the public with information that is blatantly wrong - saying you've finished with things that you haven't - the public are left second-guessing whether there's a problem or not.
After all, the public aren't actually interested in whether you're working on the drains, the tarmac or a gantry. All they want to know is whether it's going to finish on time, early or late.
Speaking of communication - I notice that Highways England have finally shut that weird Commonplace page they were running. They do, I'm sure, thank you for your feedback, even though most of it was hysterical rants.
I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham
Re: M27 smartification
It also compounds the existing problem that people don't trust what they hear from Highways England. If they're being told something that is blatantly at odds with what they can see with their own eyes, Highways England's credibility goes down the toilet, and they won't be listened to or taken seriously when they try to communicate the other things they want to tell people.Johnathan404 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 17:21The problem is that by only providing the public with information that is blatantly wrong - saying you've finished with things that you haven't - the public are left second-guessing whether there's a problem or not.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
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- RichardA35
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Re: M27 smartification
"Complete lash up" is one of the more charitable descriptions of the scheme that I have heard...
- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
I wonder if Richard's assessment is any way evidenced by the fact that, two years after the project started, the contractors are still actively advertising job vacancies. These posts are from the last few weeks, in between posts about winning health and safety awards and trialling new lights on diggers:
The last one gets some credit for publishing a photo which was taken in 2005 - 15 years ago!I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham
Re: M27 smartification
The propaganda department really is just that. I don't think anyone actually takes it seriously any more.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 19:09It also compounds the existing problem that people don't trust what they hear from Highways England. If they're being told something that is blatantly at odds with what they can see with their own eyes, Highways England's credibility goes down the toilet, and they won't be listened to or taken seriously when they try to communicate the other things they want to tell people.Johnathan404 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 17:21The problem is that by only providing the public with information that is blatantly wrong - saying you've finished with things that you haven't - the public are left second-guessing whether there's a problem or not.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
As a member of SABRE it is natural to be curious about what's going on, and when no logical answers are available, to become concerned.
For example, the scheme officially started on 15 March 2018 (as per the signs still posted along the road). The very first thing they did was refurbish the hard shoulder - fair enough - and also thoroughly refurbish the abandoned slip road next to J9. This is the road which has never been used since it was built 44 years ago.
Street View has a before and after. While it was built with road markings, to the best of my knowledge, those markings have never been replaced. A gantry is going to be installed in this road which means it'll have to be dug up.
As we approach the 2nd year anniversary of the project, it's perhaps time for a round-up of exactly what has been achieved:
J4-5. Good progress being made along the verges. This is a positive sign which distracts you from the fact this section was supposed to be completed in September 2019.
J5-7. The old central barrier has been removed. This section is supposed to be finished in November 2020.
J7-11. The new concrete barrier is largely complete. There is evidence of work about to start on one new gantry and one new ERA. This all sounds rather uplifting, but it merely suggests that this section is on track to finish on time in December 2020 - it was supposed to be the last part to be opened. The cancellation of the plan for a new J10 will have made this part easier to construct than expected.
There is no word on when, or if, the footbridge which was removed in June 2019 will be replaced.
For example, the scheme officially started on 15 March 2018 (as per the signs still posted along the road). The very first thing they did was refurbish the hard shoulder - fair enough - and also thoroughly refurbish the abandoned slip road next to J9. This is the road which has never been used since it was built 44 years ago.
Street View has a before and after. While it was built with road markings, to the best of my knowledge, those markings have never been replaced. A gantry is going to be installed in this road which means it'll have to be dug up.
As we approach the 2nd year anniversary of the project, it's perhaps time for a round-up of exactly what has been achieved:
J4-5. Good progress being made along the verges. This is a positive sign which distracts you from the fact this section was supposed to be completed in September 2019.
J5-7. The old central barrier has been removed. This section is supposed to be finished in November 2020.
J7-11. The new concrete barrier is largely complete. There is evidence of work about to start on one new gantry and one new ERA. This all sounds rather uplifting, but it merely suggests that this section is on track to finish on time in December 2020 - it was supposed to be the last part to be opened. The cancellation of the plan for a new J10 will have made this part easier to construct than expected.
There is no word on when, or if, the footbridge which was removed in June 2019 will be replaced.
Last edited by Johnathan404 on Sun Mar 08, 2020 17:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: M27 smartification
That's a lovely job on the sliproad....! The white lines appear to go all the way along, looking at the aerial photos: https://www.google.ie/maps/@50.8734088, ... a=!3m1!1e3
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Re: M27 smartification
That’s insane! Do they know something we don’t about the likelihood of Meon Valley Services finally being built? If not (and let’s face it, the answer isn’t yes) that’s a rather astonishing waste of money.c2R wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 17:31 That's a lovely job on the sliproad....! The white lines appear to go all the way along, looking at the aerial photos: https://www.google.ie/maps/@50.8734088, ... a=!3m1!1e3
I can just about see a point in repairing the surface on the parallel road - if the whole motorway-and-sliproad setup is on the same formation, which I suspect it is, then it’s only sensible to keep it in a reasonable state to prevent water seeping into the base layers of the road. Otherwise your motorway risks an uneven or broken surface years down the line.
But that doesn’t require full resurfacing and white lining.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: M27 smartification
The charitable answer is a materials test. I hope that is what it is, otherwise the only explanation is incompetence.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 22:33That’s insane! Do they know something we don’t about the likelihood of Meon Valley Services finally being built? If not (and let’s face it, the answer isn’t yes) that’s a rather astonishing waste of money.c2R wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 17:31 That's a lovely job on the sliproad....! The white lines appear to go all the way along, looking at the aerial photos: https://www.google.ie/maps/@50.8734088, ... a=!3m1!1e3
I can just about see a point in repairing the surface on the parallel road - if the whole motorway-and-sliproad setup is on the same formation, which I suspect it is, then it’s only sensible to keep it in a reasonable state to prevent water seeping into the base layers of the road. Otherwise your motorway risks an uneven or broken surface years down the line.
But that doesn’t require full resurfacing and white lining.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M27 smartification
That would be rank incompetence. For someone to get to the end of white lining that and realise it was an inactive carriageway, or a manager to order it to be white lined, would surely be grounds for a competency review of the individual(s). No entire organisation throws away money like that without a head rolling... right?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 16:27The charitable answer is a materials test. I hope that is what it is, otherwise the only explanation is incompetence.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 22:33That’s insane! Do they know something we don’t about the likelihood of Meon Valley Services finally being built? If not (and let’s face it, the answer isn’t yes) that’s a rather astonishing waste of money.c2R wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 17:31 That's a lovely job on the sliproad....! The white lines appear to go all the way along, looking at the aerial photos: https://www.google.ie/maps/@50.8734088, ... a=!3m1!1e3
I can just about see a point in repairing the surface on the parallel road - if the whole motorway-and-sliproad setup is on the same formation, which I suspect it is, then it’s only sensible to keep it in a reasonable state to prevent water seeping into the base layers of the road. Otherwise your motorway risks an uneven or broken surface years down the line.
But that doesn’t require full resurfacing and white lining.
- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
A good before/after from broadly the same location.
May 2019: (source)
September 2019: (source)
11 months later, April 2020: (source)
I do understand that the last few weeks may have damaged their schedule. That doesn't change the fact that work officially started on 15 March 2018, traffic management has been in place since February 2019, work is scheduled to be complete in November 2020 and yet on this section they haven't actually got round to working on the smart motorway yet.
Meanwhile no information has been given on when traffic management will be put in place for the M3. All we have is: "2020-22 – Start building the new smart motorway". I can only hope that this is because lessons have been learned about what happens when you commit to dates.
May 2019: (source)
September 2019: (source)
11 months later, April 2020: (source)
I do understand that the last few weeks may have damaged their schedule. That doesn't change the fact that work officially started on 15 March 2018, traffic management has been in place since February 2019, work is scheduled to be complete in November 2020 and yet on this section they haven't actually got round to working on the smart motorway yet.
Meanwhile no information has been given on when traffic management will be put in place for the M3. All we have is: "2020-22 – Start building the new smart motorway". I can only hope that this is because lessons have been learned about what happens when you commit to dates.
Last edited by Johnathan404 on Wed Apr 29, 2020 23:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: M27 smartification
I noticed driving towards junction 5 last week that new armco barriers were being installed in the central reservation, however I was under the impression only concrete barriers were being used now.
Re: M27 smartification
Likely to be due to the visibility around the bendsGeekyJames wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 22:51 I noticed driving towards junction 5 last week that new armco barriers were being installed in the central reservation, however I was under the impression only concrete barriers were being used now.
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Re: M27 smartification
So pleased that this is no longer on our commute run.
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Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
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Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- Johnathan404
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Re: M27 smartification
According to the drawings published by Highways England, 100 yards either side of the Itchen Mill Bridge will have deformable VRS ("Armco"). This is due to that crossing being two separate structures. Also 50 yards at each end will have new Armco as the new barrier ties in to the old.GeekyJames wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 22:51 I noticed driving towards junction 5 last week that new armco barriers were being installed in the central reservation, however I was under the impression only concrete barriers were being used now.
Other than this the entire scheme is scheduled to use concrete RCB. Anything less than that would be a last-minute downgrade.
The double bend at the old Transit factory has more than enough space for decent forward visibility. It's going to look hideous with such a wide, solid, central reservation, no doubt covered in hatching, but that's another issue.
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Re: M27 smartification
I get phone calls about once a month asking me to go on this and it's been like that since the start. No idea why it's heamorraging staff so badly?Johnathan404 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 01:26 I wonder if Richard's assessment is any way evidenced by the fact that, two years after the project started, the contractors are still actively advertising job vacancies. These posts are from the last few weeks, in between posts about winning health and safety awards and trialling new lights on diggers:B1496328-CC89-4D18-9348-711500AF588A.jpegC05AF73A-955A-4550-81FD-C708F5D4A615.jpeg16155D00-C4F1-46AA-9C8A-7B9C796672F7.jpeg
The last one gets some credit for publishing a photo which was taken in 2005 - 15 years ago!
But if programme is slipping then high staff turnover may be part of the problem.
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