A45/A6 Chowns Mill

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wrinkly
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A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by wrinkly »

I can't find another thread this fits in.

HE press release on proposals for the roundabout:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/imag ... ll-upgrade
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Berk
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Berk »

That’s an interesting proposal, like a sort of hamburgering. I actually think some of the largest or busiest roundabouts should be converted in this way, just to reduce conflicts; if you want to take the third exit, for example, you shouldn’t have to do a massive 270° turn and cause traffic from your left/the opposite direction to queue up.
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A303Chris
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by A303Chris »

The detailed plan can be found here and the HE scheme page is here.

While it is a partial hamburger, surely putting the A45 on a flyover would be the better option
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by jackal »

Cheapskate scheme destined to be congested for decades to come. A45 Stanwick to Thrapston dualling is an RIS2 scheme, completing the dualled and mostly GSJed route between the M1 and A14. They should be looking to eliminate the at-grade bottlenecks, not consolidate them.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Herned »

Anyone have any idea how much more than £21m putting a dumbbell junction in east of the current roundabout would cost? There's nothing (obviously) in the way and would avoid the cost of most traffic management for an on-site replacement
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Truvelo »

Perhaps a single lane Meccano style flyover for the westbound A45 movement is the most cost effective solution if a large budget GSJ is out of the question?
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by SteveA30 »

An S2 Newton Abbot style GSJ should fit in there.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by thatapanydude »

jackal wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:56 A45 Stanwick to Thrapston dualling is an RIS2 scheme, completing the dualled and mostly GSJed route between the M1 and A14. They should be looking to eliminate the at-grade bottlenecks, not consolidate them.
Rather than dualling to the A14 at thrapston, wouldn't a better solution be a link from just north of Raunds to the A14 at Bythorn cutting the corner, reducing over 2 miles between Raunds and Bythorn. The A45 will still be dualled from Stanwick to Denford Ash.
1) The new road from Raunds to Bythron could probably be S2 given traffic would split in half at the (Denford Ash roundabout) for Peterborough and Cambridge, therefore with the new road link at only 3 miles it may well be cheaper than online dualling.
2) Drivers save over 2 miles between Wellingborough and the A14 vs going via Thrapston.
3) A new GSJ Dumbbell could be built at Bythorn, removing the current at grade crossroad with the B663.
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danfw194
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by danfw194 »

jackal wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:56 Cheapskate scheme destined to be congested for decades to come. A45 Stanwick to Thrapston dualling is an RIS2 scheme, completing the dualled and mostly GSJed route between the M1 and A14. They should be looking to eliminate the at-grade bottlenecks, not consolidate them.
Totally agree. I hate these types of 'improvements' that just consolidate the mess. If you're going to spend money on a big construction project, fix it properly.
Surely they can put the A45 on a flyover here? Yes I'm sure it would cost more and be a lengthier project, but it's the only solution for the long-term.
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jackal
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by jackal »

thatapanydude wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 04:10
jackal wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:56 A45 Stanwick to Thrapston dualling is an RIS2 scheme, completing the dualled and mostly GSJed route between the M1 and A14. They should be looking to eliminate the at-grade bottlenecks, not consolidate them.
Rather than dualling to the A14 at thrapston, wouldn't a better solution be a link from just north of Raunds to the A14 at Bythorn cutting the corner, reducing over 2 miles between Raunds and Bythorn. The A45 will still be dualled from Stanwick to Denford Ash.
1) The new road from Raunds to Bythron could probably be S2 given traffic would split in half at the (Denford Ash roundabout) for Peterborough and Cambridge, therefore with the new road link at only 3 miles it may well be cheaper than online dualling.
2) Drivers save over 2 miles between Wellingborough and the A14 vs going via Thrapston.
3) A new GSJ Dumbbell could be built at Bythorn, removing the current at grade crossroad with the B663.
I see what you mean, but it removes the utility of the new road for cross country journeys to Peterborough or Norfolk, or at best would direct them along the A14 to the A1(M) and A11.

In the long run I'd hope that the A605, A1139 and A47 would be dualled and GSJed, creating a high quality strategic route on a diagonal course across eastern England. The A47 bit of this is at least getting some attention. I think it's better to develop alternatives to the A14 than to plug more and more roads into it and hope for the best.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Peter Freeman »

jackal wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:56 Cheapskate scheme destined to be congested for decades to come. A45 Stanwick to Thrapston dualling is an RIS2 scheme, completing the dualled and mostly GSJed route between the M1 and A14. They should be looking to eliminate the at-grade bottlenecks, not consolidate them.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by M19 »

The A45 has also been strangled by the Rushden Lakes Retail Park which is accessed from a new roundabout.

Traffic numbers obviously "massaged" to justify the roundabout, which as I would have predicted, without relying on traffic modelling, is well and truly stuffed.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by A320Driver »

This was on the local news this morning. I wasn’t aware of the scheme so had a quick look at HE site. Seems like a GSJ was ruled out, utterly baffling when you consider this is a major junction on a predominantly GSJd route from M1 to M14.

No constraints east of the junction and flat topography would mean a GSJ should be easy to construct, with few traffic management issues.

A bit like the M25/A3 proposal, I wonder if the designer sits back after the design is created and says “great, really happy with that, job done” without realising it will be a total failure at opening day.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Arcuarius »

A320Driver wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 08:56No constraints east of the junction and flat topography would mean a GSJ should be easy to construct, with few traffic management issues.

A bit like the M25/A3 proposal, I wonder if the designer sits back after the design is created and says “great, really happy with that, job done” without realising it will be a total failure at opening day.
I have good faith in the folks across the office from where I'm currently sat, who have been working on this for the last couple of years. It doesn't suddenly make grade separation easy just because the topography's flat.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by jackal »

I would mostly blame HE/government for setting a silly '<£25m' budget, which is enough to be very significant expenditure but not enough to provide a long term solution (grade separation). Still, I don't think the designers are completely blameless - £24m for this deckchair moving exercise suggests they've taken the budget as a target rather than a limit.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by A320Driver »

Arcuarius wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 13:17
A320Driver wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 08:56No constraints east of the junction and flat topography would mean a GSJ should be easy to construct, with few traffic management issues.

A bit like the M25/A3 proposal, I wonder if the designer sits back after the design is created and says “great, really happy with that, job done” without realising it will be a total failure at opening day.
I have good faith in the folks across the office from where I'm currently sat, who have been working on this for the last couple of years. It doesn't suddenly make grade separation easy just because the topography's flat.
2 years to come up with this joke of a junction? What stuff do they smoke in your office?
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Peter Freeman »

Arcuarius wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 13:17
A320Driver wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 08:56No constraints east of the junction and flat topography would mean a GSJ should be easy to construct.
... It doesn't suddenly make grade separation easy just because the topography's flat.
It doesn't have to be a GSJ - signalised flat junctions can sometimes be OK. But not this ridiculous design.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by Arcuarius »

A320Driver wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 22:42
Arcuarius wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 13:17
A320Driver wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 08:56No constraints east of the junction and flat topography would mean a GSJ should be easy to construct, with few traffic management issues.

A bit like the M25/A3 proposal, I wonder if the designer sits back after the design is created and says “great, really happy with that, job done” without realising it will be a total failure at opening day.
I have good faith in the folks across the office from where I'm currently sat, who have been working on this for the last couple of years. It doesn't suddenly make grade separation easy just because the topography's flat.
2 years to come up with this joke of a junction? What stuff do they smoke in your office?
Maybe try it for a living. There's a lot wrong with this junction that they're trying to fix. Literally everyone has their metaphorical finger in the pie here.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by danfw194 »

Arcuarius wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25 Maybe try it for a living. There's a lot wrong with this junction that they're trying to fix. Literally everyone has their metaphorical finger in the pie here.
Would it be a fair assumption to make that the stingy budget set aside for this scheme is the main driving force behind the design?

I'm sure there are a million and one factors involved in the planning of these schemes, and I wouldn't for one minute dispute that the guys and girls involved have the best intentions possible. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just smacks of a sticking plaster solution because the budget isn't significant enough. I can't imagine there's boundless enthusiasm in the office for it.
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Re: A45/A6 Chowns Mill

Post by M5Lenzar »

Arcuarius wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25
Maybe try it for a living. There's a lot wrong with this junction that they're trying to fix. Literally everyone has their metaphorical finger in the pie here.
When can he start?

Can I also have a go?

I'm sure both of us are able to draw few lines on a map then claim a six figure 'consultancy' fee.
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