M90 or A90 confusion

[roadphotos]

Can anyone confirm that the M90 junctions 1 to 1a is actually the A90. I know the sections north and south of here are all the M90 but I believe that the part of the road between junctions 1 (A90 exit) and 1a ( the A904 exit) is classified as the A90. All of the 2018 road atlases show this section of road as part of the M90 but I believe this to be incorrect. Last year I contacted my friends at A-Z maps to inform them about this and other minor errors on the 2018 motoring atlas but they have told me recently that they contacted Scottish Highways about this and were told that all of the road from the M9 to the Queensferry Crossing is the M90. As a result of this the 2019 A-Z road atlas will also show the 2 mile section of road from junction 1 to 1a as the M90 and not the A90. My apologies if this has been discussed before on SABRE but as I haven't yet been up to Scotland to see this road for myself I would be interested to see if anyone has any information on this.

[Burns]

See, this is the kind of confusion you get when you let Numb and Neep classify roads to cater for the 0 people a day who want to drive a moped between Scotstoun and whatever the new Echline junction is called.

[ScottB5411]

See, this is the kind of confusion you get when you let Numb and Neep classify roads to cater for the 0 people a day who want to drive a moped between Scotstoun and whatever the new Echline junction is called.

*insert* despite the fact there is a perfectly viable alternative route to avoid it also */insert*

[Duncan macknight]

The only reason for this nonsense is that the new on/off ramps that take traffic to South Queensferry and to the forth road bridge (facing Edinburgh) are restricted to buses and other forms of public transport. The A90 bit is only there to allow non motorway traffic to get off at the A904 junction before it becomes M90 for the crossing. Makes sense in writing but just looks god auful when looking at a map or driving along.

[Nwallace]

As your round the corner from the M9 spur/M90 there is a big blue sign with nice big red line through the chopsticks; the A90 has appeared out of edinburgh and you join it with a merge and it's green signed glory, on reaching the next junction you are presented with green "Non-Motorway get aff here" signs before hitting the blue signage and chopsticks all the way until you pop off the end of the Friarton Bridge.

It's shown correctly on Bing's base map but their OS map is out of date.

Looks like A9000 traffic could have used the B800 from the A90; but then that would probably be seen as a retrograde step...

[Steven]

It's a non-motorway Special Road, so it's more odd than the average person might imagine...

IIRC, it's only open to Class I, II and IV traffic.

[Halmyre]

I bet they did it deliberately to give SABRE something to argue about for the next ten years, the M74/A74(M) discussion being just about all played out.

[Chris5156]

Makes sense in writing but just looks god auful when looking at a map or driving along.

From the other posts in this thread it sounds very much like some map makers have avoided that problem by using the wrong colour and the wrong number on their maps.

[FosseWay]

Unless I'm missing something, there is no practical reason why the eastbound carriageway shouldn't be motorway, as there is no corresponding need for non-motorway traffic to use it. Or is it just fundamentally against the laws of nature to have one carriageway with one classification and the other with another?

[Steven]

Or is it just fundamentally against the laws of nature to have one carriageway with one classification and the other with another?

I refer the honourable gentleman to the A64(M).

I suspect no-one will have thought of it as being a possibility, that's all.

[stuartf]

In conjunction with the above plans for eastbound, could they have made the A90 into motorway westbound from the B924 (Dalmeny) junction, instructed all westbound non-motorway traffic to leave down the B924, and had the M90 as continuous motorway westbound? They could reclassify the section of A90 westbound from the B924 junction as an M90 sliproad to avoid further confusion.

However, I don't suppose anyone will ever be prosecuted for doing something on the non-motorway section that's legal on a motorway (speed limits may be the only such thing?).

[orudge]

I'm sure they could have if they'd wanted to (and this was suggested in the main FRC topic not so long ago), but I expect there would have been objections from locals in South Queensferry who wouldn't want extra traffic going through the village (as little as it may in practice be).

In terms of numbering, I expect it would just be signed as "(M90)" (the M90 has a spur at the top, so why not at the bottom too?), although A90(M) might be fun (in which case we should also get the A9(M) at the north!) Were the road eastbound to be made motorway too, then "(A90)" would be the signage.

Of course, the logical solution would just be to open up the B800 off-slip to all non-motorway traffic, perhaps add an on-slip on the other side, and then reclassify the 'gap' as M90.

But, as has been mentioned a few times in the other topic, aside from folk here, nobody really cares. The A90 special road section road still has three lanes and a hard shoulder and is built to motorway design standards.

[nowster]

One hopes they remember to sign the speed limit correctly on the non-motorway Special Road section.

[orudge]

I don't know the legalities behind it, but the AWPR - a Special Road limited to class I and II traffic - has standard NSL roundels rather than 70 signs. This is also true on newer Scottish motorway schemes (which previously always had 70 signs).

[Bertiebus]

Makes sense in writing but just looks god auful when looking at a map or driving along.

Driving this section regularly (several times in the past fortnight), before I read this thread I never noticed that the M90 'disappears' for a short section. Therefore I can only deduce that it just looks 'god auful' (sic) to a very, very tiny number of Sabristi

[Burns]

Makes sense in writing but just looks god auful when looking at a map or driving along.

Driving this section regularly (several times in the past fortnight), before I read this thread I never noticed that the M90 'disappears' for a short section. Therefore I can only deduce that it just looks 'god auful' (sic) to a very, very tiny number of Sabristi

The signage along the A90 between the two bits of the M90 looks awful. Apologies for the distortion, I took the image from my dashcam.

[nowster]

I don't know the legalities behind it, but the AWPR - a Special Road limited to class I and II traffic - has standard NSL roundels rather than 70 signs. This is also true on newer Scottish motorway schemes (which previously always had 70 signs).

It depends on how the Special Road laws interact with the speed limit laws in Scotland. In England and Wales an NSL sign on a Special Road would put you in a legal minefield.

[Nwallace]

It's also under Variable speed limit as detailed in the SSIs here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2017/ ... tents/made
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2012/ ... tents/made
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2012/ ... edule/made

[ScottB5411]

I don't know the legalities behind it, but the AWPR - a Special Road limited to class I and II traffic - has standard NSL roundels rather than 70 signs. This is also true on newer Scottish motorway schemes (which previously always had 70 signs).

It depends on how the Special Road laws interact with the speed limit laws in Scotland. In England and Wales an NSL sign on a Special Road would put you in a legal minefield.

Wonder how many people would actually know what it meant for that stretch of road though

[jgharston]

Yea gods, and the junction numbering: 1 2 1a 1 1a 1b 1c 2 !!!