Any other nominations for CBRD’s Bad Junctions?

[Simon_GNR]

Does it have to be a Motorway junction as otherwise i nominate this

https://goo.gl/maps/RjefYasbmHE2

Deliberately engineered for left turn only when that way led to a mini roundabout, the roundabout was removed over 5 years ago and the road markings changed to Right turn only which requires you to turn right across the exit of a roundabout without going too wide as then you would encroach on a bus lane for an instant fine and with that roundabout exit servicing the rail air coaches too and from Reading BR which are not renowned for giving way to anything.

To add some spice that is the only exit from the Forbury part of town during the day due to the access rules through the marketplace which includes the main town centre secure motorbike parks. Apparently it does not fall foul of any safety rules because "it is in a 20mph limit" which is true by about 1 meter -https://goo.gl/maps/ZVgVZQuXMgz

I used to work in the office building on the right of the picture (1989/90) and I've been in the pub on the left a few times too: it used to be Brakspear's place. The traffic was not too bad around there in those days.

[Reading]

Does it have to be a Motorway junction as otherwise i nominate this

https://goo.gl/maps/RjefYasbmHE2

Deliberately engineered for left turn only when that way led to a mini roundabout, the roundabout was removed over 5 years ago and the road markings changed to Right turn only which requires you to turn right across the exit of a roundabout without going too wide as then you would encroach on a bus lane for an instant fine and with that roundabout exit servicing the rail air coaches too and from Reading BR which are not renowned for giving way to anything.

To add some spice that is the only exit from the Forbury part of town during the day due to the access rules through the marketplace which includes the main town centre secure motorbike parks. Apparently it does not fall foul of any safety rules because "it is in a 20mph limit" which is true by about 1 meter -https://goo.gl/maps/ZVgVZQuXMgz

So what would happen if this junction started having lots of accidents? I expect there is many near misses!
The best idea would be if they broke through the wall that blocks that exit from going straight to the roundabout. That way the current stupid right turn could go!

No money - seems only way it will get done is if a s106 facilitates it

[Reading]

Does it have to be a Motorway junction as otherwise i nominate this

https://goo.gl/maps/RjefYasbmHE2

Deliberately engineered for left turn only when that way led to a mini roundabout, the roundabout was removed over 5 years ago and the road markings changed to Right turn only which requires you to turn right across the exit of a roundabout without going too wide as then you would encroach on a bus lane for an instant fine and with that roundabout exit servicing the rail air coaches too and from Reading BR which are not renowned for giving way to anything.

To add some spice that is the only exit from the Forbury part of town during the day due to the access rules through the marketplace which includes the main town centre secure motorbike parks. Apparently it does not fall foul of any safety rules because "it is in a 20mph limit" which is true by about 1 meter -https://goo.gl/maps/ZVgVZQuXMgz

I used to work in the office building on the right of the picture (1989/90) and I've been in the pub on the left a few times too: it used to be Brakspear's place. The traffic was not too bad around there in those days.

Rising Sun was a great Rock/Goth/live music pub spent many nights in there, then shut reopened as a gay/foodie pub and now shut again

[Chris Bertram]

Redbridge Roundabout, the southern terminus junction of the M271 where it meets the A35 and A33.

The M271 / M27 junction is on Bad Junctions, yet I seem to find this one worse in just about every way. The fact that a motorway terminates on a roundabout is not automatically a bad thing: many motorways terminate in this way.

Are there that many? Quite a few original roundabout termini have been engineered out and replaced by GSJs. Excluding M-way to M-way interchanges and spurs, I can think of:

M1 Brent Cross
M4 Pont Abraham
M45 Thurlaston
M50 Ross-on-Wye
M57 Switch Island
M67 Denton (arguably) and Hattersley
M90 Broxden - or is that just a spur?
M181 Frodingham
M271 both ends and in the middle!
M602 Regent Circus - if hamburgers count
A66(M) Blackwell - if you count it as more than a spur
A194(M) White Mare Pool
A601(M) Warton - though I'm half-inclined to think of that as an M6 spur

Have I missed any?

[James]

My nomination (after going through there a few times last week!)

A34/A303
Despite connecting 2 important routes and the junction being in the middle on nowhere with plenty of space, its a terrible layout

Each time I come off the slip road, swooping around expecting a nice free flow link, to have to brake at the last minute for a roundabout which is usally a similar size to something you would find on a housing estate.

A34(S) to A303(W) involves a roundabout which if you use the right lane of the offslip, you will be not able to go the correct route, then after that you have a right turn T junction to get to the A303

A303(E) to A34(N)
Despite Newbury A34 being top billed on the exit sign, you come up to this
https://goo.gl/maps/tqXjWCTKzF62

You then have to hope you picked the correct lane on the roundabout and spotted the tiny signs on the far side to pick up the A34. For such an important movement on a major route it terrible.

The whole thing needs some freeflow links adding, eliminating the roundabout movements as a minimum

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Quite a few original roundabout termini have been engineered out and replaced by GSJs. Excluding M-way to M-way interchanges and spurs, I can think of:

M1 Brent Cross
M4 Pont Abraham
M45 Thurlaston
M50 Ross-on-Wye
M57 Switch Island
M67 Denton (arguably) and Hattersley
M90 Broxden - or is that just a spur?
M181 Frodingham
M271 both ends and in the middle!
M602 Regent Circus - if hamburgers count
A66(M) Blackwell - if you count it as more than a spur
A194(M) White Mare Pool
A601(M) Warton - though I'm half-inclined to think of that as an M6 spur

Have I missed any?

I would agree with your opinion of the A601(M) bearing in mind that the roundabout near Warton was the northern terminus of the M6 for a while in the 1960's.

You could add the M9 roundabout near Dunblane to your list.

[wallmeerkat]

A12 (NI) Westlink Clifton Street

It looks just like a regular diamond interchange, however the onslips are the main concern.

Southbound onslip you are joining the carraigeway on a bend, trying to match speed (50mph when traffic is flowing). There is a short merge that if you don't manage to merge you are left with a concrete wall.

The North-east bound onslip is a lane gain, however there is a lot of weaving and slowing down of traffic as a lot of the traffic joining wants to cross 3 lanes to join the M3 bound lanes which diverge to the right of the rightmost lane.

There was the oppurtunity during the works a few years ago to close these onslips, the junction is close enough to the start of the Westlink at York Street. But they didn't.

Then A101/M1 (NI) Junction 8 Blaris. http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/m1j8scheme.html
So much potential here wasted. It looks like an inoffensive dumbell.
It should've been a freeflow junction between the M1 and the main A1 to/from the south.
Instead it is a glorified retail park access. Any movement requires negotiating roundabouts - the innermost U turns on the roundabout are rarely used, this could at least have been turned into an A8 Edinburgh Airport style enclosed dumbell.
And given that there are roundabouts, they could've built a link to Blaris Road for the Balmoral showgrounds (Maze) or Lissue Road industrial estate. But they didn't.
A lot of traffic still doesn't bother with it, continuing to use the old Junction 7 where from Belfast direction to South you negotiate 1 roundabout and jet lane the second.

[Chris Bertram]

Meanwhile, can I add the complex at Fiveways Corner, Croydon, to this list? It's where A232 intersects with A23, and both are very busy. B271 and B275 are also part of the mix. There are forests of traffic lights, and some horrible conflicts where westbound A232 traffic turns right across eastbound traffic to use the cutoff via Epsom Road right by Waddon station. At peak time, it's jam central, but I can see that demolition to facilitate a better solution might be tricky. But then again, this *is* Croydon, where they knocked down half the town centre to build an underpass and a flyover.

[Glom]

My nomination (after going through there a few times last week!)

A34/A303
Despite connecting 2 important routes and the junction being in the middle on nowhere with plenty of space, its a terrible layout

Each time I come off the slip road, swooping around expecting a nice free flow link, to have to brake at the last minute for a roundabout which is usally a similar size to something you would find on a housing estate.

A34(S) to A303(W) involves a roundabout which if you use the right lane of the offslip, you will be not able to go the correct route, then after that you have a right turn T junction to get to the A303

A303(E) to A34(N)
Despite Newbury A34 being top billed on the exit sign, you come up to this
https://goo.gl/maps/tqXjWCTKzF62

You then have to hope you picked the correct lane on the roundabout and spotted the tiny signs on the far side to pick up the A34. For such an important movement on a major route it terrible.

The whole thing needs some freeflow links adding, eliminating the roundabout movements as a minimum

I already this with Chris is another thread and he taken it as nominated so hopefully it will be next up. But lets prod this one again.

Yes that A303(E) to A34(N) movement is terrible because you're making a left turn overall, but when you come to that teeny weeny roundabout, you have to go right on it. Counterintuitive. The first time I did it, I got confused and ended on the Southbound.

But even worse is the awful, awful, awful merges. So tight they're terrifying.

[DuckDuckGo]

Does it have to be a Motorway junction as otherwise i nominate this

https://goo.gl/maps/RjefYasbmHE2

Deliberately engineered for left turn only when that way led to a mini roundabout, the roundabout was removed over 5 years ago and the road markings changed to Right turn only which requires you to turn right across the exit of a roundabout without going too wide as then you would encroach on a bus lane for an instant fine and with that roundabout exit servicing the rail air coaches too and from Reading BR which are not renowned for giving way to anything.

To add some spice that is the only exit from the Forbury part of town during the day due to the access rules through the marketplace which includes the main town centre secure motorbike parks. Apparently it does not fall foul of any safety rules because "it is in a 20mph limit" which is true by about 1 meter -https://goo.gl/maps/ZVgVZQuXMgz

No it doesn’t have to be a motorway junction. Badly designed, congested, dangerous etc are welcome

[Ronnie]

The unholy trinity of Sheriffhall, Hermiston Gait and Broxden roundabouts

[Burns]

The unholy trinity of Sheriffhall, Hermiston Gait and Broxden roundabouts

Sheriffhall and Broxden are already on the list. Although, when it comes to Broxden, I hate Inveralmond more but only if I'm travelling south. Let's push all the traffic into the right hand lane despite the fact the A9 is a dual carriageway on both sides of the roundabout just because we can't get the signal timings right.

[FleetlinePhil]

I've nominated M60 J21 near Chadderton. Turning left onto the M60 is easy, but any other manoeuvre, including going straight through on the A663, is a major chore because the combination of signals and the volume of traffic involved make it very stop-start - exacerbated by the fact it forms part of the corner-cutting route between the M62 and M60, along with the A627(M).

The A663 to either side has a high capacity but is not free-flowing, so a free-flowing interchange would be of limited use here; I reckon an intelligent, high-capacity design like a SPUI or a diverging diamond would work wonders.

This is indeed an awful junction I used daily at various periods, mostly the M62-M60 corner-cut described above. It is marginally improved now that Semple Way (the link from the M60N to A663) is marked for two lanes to queue right back to the lights at the exit from the M60. There might be room to widen it to three lanes approaching the A663, to allow traffic turning left or going straight over onto the M60 entry slip to avoid the traffic turning right.

The main problem is the lack of throughput: when the lights allow you to make the right turn onto the A663, the next set at Broadgate are on red. Even with two lanes, there is only a small number of vehicles can proceed at any one change. If a lorry near the end of the green cycle hangs back because it would foul the box, that is two or three cars-worth capacity lost.

[multiraider2]

Meanwhile, can I add the complex at Fiveways Corner, Croydon, to this list? It's where A232 intersects with A23, and both are very busy. B271 and B275 are also part of the mix. There are forests of traffic lights, and some horrhigible conflicts where westbound A232 traffic turns right across eastbound traffic to use the cutoff via Epsom Road right by Waddon station. At peak time, it's jam central, but I can see that demolition to facilitate a better solution might be tricky. But then again, this *is* Croydon, where they knocked down half the town centre to build an underpass and a flyover.

Another vote for this Junction. Awful. It was under TFL consultation for improvement and the obvious solution was one of the proposals, being a flyover for the A232 over the tracks near Waddon Station. However, TFL didn't go for that. The current proposals are highlighted here.

[M5Lenzar]

A super local one here.

This junction complex is bad because the traffic lights with the retail park were installed fairly recently. It was impossible to get out of there at busy times, so something needed to be done.

However, what was done was a set of traffic lights that have been deliberately engineered to link with the green light at the next lights. This makes continuing along London Road take so long that most of us use another road to get out of the estate.

Whilst a mini-roundabout would be better, I'd be happier if they at least got rid of the no longer needed box junction to allow London Road traffic to stack at the second stop line.

[Owain]

A super local one here.

This junction complex is bad because the traffic lights with the retail park were installed fairly recently. It was impossible to get out of there at busy times, so something needed to be done.

However, what was done was a set of traffic lights that have been deliberately engineered to link with the green light at the next lights. This makes continuing along London Road take so long that most of us use another road to get out of the estate.

Whilst a mini-roundabout would be better, I'd be happier if they at least got rid of the no longer needed box junction to allow London Road traffic to stack at the second stop line.

If you can nominate that, then I am nominating this!

I seem to be the only driver who can use it without either (a) sitting at a standstill for half an hour, waiting for all the other cars to go, or (b) charging across without slowing down, forcing everybody else to take evasive action.

It's okay at quiet times, but during rush hour it is simply dreadful; I think the problem is compounded by there being a primary school a short distance away on one road, and a small supermarket a short distance away on another.

It definitely needs lights, because most people don't seem to be able to use it properly. This one isn't much better.

[danfw194]

I realise CBRD is for UK roads/junctions, but the M8 roundabout at Cork in ROI caught my eye on Google Maps. Was just looking at the live traffic and noticed massive tailbacks into arriving at this roundabout, from the M8 in the north and the N40 in the south. Right this minute the tailback on the N40 looks about 5 miles.

Does anyone have experience of this junction? Is it as bad as it looks? Surely the M8-N40 should be the primary route through it?
Having a motorway end on a signalised roundabout is very poor.

[Johnathan404]

I realise CBRD is for UK roads/junctions, but the M8 roundabout at Cork in ROI caught my eye on Google Maps. Was just looking at the live traffic and noticed massive tailbacks into arriving at this roundabout, from the M8 in the north and the N40 in the south. Right this minute the tailback on the N40 looks about 5 miles.

Does anyone have experience of this junction? Is it as bad as it looks? Surely the M8-N40 should be the primary route through it?
Having a motorway end on a signalised roundabout is very poor.

The Dunkettle Interchange is one of the country's biggest traffic blackspots but work has started on a major grade separation scheme.

[danfw194]

Cheers. Those plans look decent! One niggle would be the potential dangerous weaving of N40 traffic heading to that dumbbell, crossing over with M8 > N25 eastbound traffic.

[Enceladus]

Dunkettle is a complete disaster. Hopefully the works to make it free flow will be successful. We shall have to wait and see.