Irl: Road Widening schemes

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nirs
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by nirs »

Enceladus wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 19:55I stand to be corrected, but I believe that this is the very first motorway bridge demoltion in the Republic of Ireland. I don't recall any bridge demolitions during the major M50 upgrade project.
This has been an increasing issue in NI over the past 10-15 years. Most of our motorway bridges were built in the 1960s, and had an expected lifespan of 50 years (which I believe is really what the technology permitted back then), which means many of our motorway bridges are reaching the end of their design life simultaneously. In the decade after 2000 there was a lot of retro-fitting of 1960s bridges in NI to make them last longer (adding tension cables in some cases, and in others stripping off the surfacing and treating the concrete below). Some - like Stockman's Lane on the M1 and three on the M2 hill section - we got away with when they had to be demolished for road widening anyway.

During the M1 Westlink upgrade in 2006-2009 all four lanes of the M1 traffic was diverted onto the countrybound bridge - quite an achievement. They installed glass strips to monitor the structure. I'm told that the bridge did actually begin to crack during the operation, but that they managed to keep it going long enough for traffic to divert onto the new citybound bridge. There was an emergency backup plan to divert all M1 traffic onto Stockman's Lane roundabout had the bridge become unsafe, but thankfully it wasn't needed.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

Bridge maintenance is going to become a major issue in the decades ahead - first in the UK where they have had motorway bridges for longer, then here.

As you say a lot of bridges hitting or exceeding their expected life span.

Could cost an absolute fortune.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Euan »

odlum wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 22:37 Bridge maintenance is going to become a major issue in the decades ahead - first in the UK where they have had motorway bridges for longer, then here.

As you say a lot of bridges hitting or exceeding their expected life span.

Could cost an absolute fortune.
Most sections of the M6 and M1 motorways in England are now over 50 years old, so some of their older bridges will certainly need to be assessed to see how long they will be safe for, as in NI. In Ireland it might not be a huge problem for at least another 25-30 years, and even longer than that for the newer stretches of the M7 and M8.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by bothar »

Euan wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 22:45
odlum wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 22:37 Bridge maintenance is going to become a major issue in the decades ahead - first in the UK where they have had motorway bridges for longer, then here.

As you say a lot of bridges hitting or exceeding their expected life span.

Could cost an absolute fortune.
Most sections of the M6 and M1 motorways in England are now over 50 years old, so some of their older bridges will certainly need to be assessed to see how long they will be safe for, as in NI. In Ireland it might not be a huge problem for at least another 25-30 years, and even longer than that for the newer stretches of the M7 and M8.
Irish roads were built when engineering standards reflected the experience of large motorway building programmes elsewhere and when travel speeds and truck sizes were largely fully evolved. So the designs might last longer.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Berk »

Euan wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 22:45
odlum wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 22:37 Bridge maintenance is going to become a major issue in the decades ahead - first in the UK where they have had motorway bridges for longer, then here.

As you say a lot of bridges hitting or exceeding their expected life span.

Could cost an absolute fortune.
Most sections of the M6 and M1 motorways in England are now over 50 years old, so some of their older bridges will certainly need to be assessed to see how long they will be safe for, as in NI. In Ireland it might not be a huge problem for at least another 25-30 years, and even longer than that for the newer stretches of the M7 and M8.
That assumption is only good where bridges have not needed to be replaced at all. Several key stretches of both motorways have been widened, and these bridges will obviously have a much longer life. You’d only really be talking about areas where HSR/ALR is/has been considered, and the median has not been altered.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by bothar »

Plenty of bits in here in the National Roads Report 2018, including roads that are over capacity. Some of these sections e.g. M7 Naas are already in the widening and others e.g. M1 are planned.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Owain »

bothar wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 12:52 Plenty of bits in here in the National Roads Report 2018, including roads that are over capacity. Some of these sections e.g. M7 Naas are already in the widening and others e.g. M1 are planned.
If they're planning on widening from D2M to D3M, it'll be interesting to see if it makes any difference. In my experience of driving in Ireland (in the North as well as the South), 9 out of 10 vehicles on a D3M drive in the middle lane.

The M2 heading up the hill away from Belfast is a sight to behold; often, the quickest lane in which to make progress is lane 1 (which drops for the A8(M) slip at the top of the hill). I drove on the M1 out of Dublin less frequently, but it seemed that nobody ever used lane 1 until they got to the airport (and even then, it was only to turn off!).
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by c2R »

They were doing a big campaign about keeping left unless overtaking about a year ago, handing out flyers to everyone stopping at the toll at Drogheda.

Interesting that there were almost as many pedestrian fatalities on the motorway network as the whole national primary network. I wonder what the cause is, whether these are people wandering from breakdowns, road workers, or unexpected pedestrians wandering onto the motorway without a car...


That's a good report really, as it's clear what economic benefits the motorway network is bringing and also identifies areas of concern, in terms of engineering as well as traffic volume.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

M7 coming to a conclusion by the looks of things (pic regedit, boards)

http://i66.tinypic.com/ffd5r9.jpg
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

3 lanes open today between J8 and J10 Dublin bound. Westbound (Southbound?) to open next week.

Rest of scheme to J11 (M9 interchange) to be completed by September.

From https://twitter.com/Jimmy_kehoe/status/ ... 1669494784

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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Johnathan404 »

A few from me. The speed limit is even more of a drag now it's all open. Still a lot of hard shoulder work to do, especially with the signage.

I got very confused coming off at J10. It's currently operating as a free-flow left turn, disguised as a roundabout.

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Last edited by Johnathan404 on Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

Thanks for the pics. Looks great.

I see on the M4 widening they want to put in a bus lane as a trial - so it will be 3 lanes + bus lane + hard shoulder.

I give the bus lane 6 months and then we'll be left with D4M on the route 8-)
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Johnathan404 »

New J10 onslip opens today - is that all four then?

Restrictions expected to be removed by the end of next month.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

I have often wondered why does UK not adopt yellow hard shoulder?

They make sense in terms of differentiation. :confused:

Could be argued a better safety measure than smart motorways :) Add in some rumble strips as well.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by murphaph »

odlum wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 05:10 I have often wondered why does UK not adopt yellow hard shoulder?

They make sense in terms of differentiation. :confused:

Could be argued a better safety measure than smart motorways :) Add in some rumble strips as well.
I don't like them myself. I don't like the fact that a single yellow line has another meaning (parking restriction).

I like the way yellow lines are used in both the US and Germany (differently).

In the US they use them to show where crossing a line means you will be in the lane for oncoming traffic.

In Germany yellow markings are used during roadworks to show temporary lanes and to cross out stuff that is not valid during the works.

The Irish usage of yellow lines for the hard shoulder strikes me as kind of pointless. The hard shoulder line can be white but a bit thicker to indicate a hard shoulder.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by nirs »

Since we're on the subject of lines, I also dislike the way the dashed line on an onslip in RoI disappears before the lane merge ends. I find it quite disconcerting as an NI driver, where the dash continues right until the end of the onslip. It feels slightly ambiguous as to what's going on or what you're expected to do when a lane divider just disappears.

Eg: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.96192 ... 384!8i8192

I suppose I'd get used to it if I used them every day.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Johnathan404 »

I don't mind the gap, and if it's really quiet I'll play "fit through the gap without touching either line" ( :oops: ), but what I can't get used to is the painted arrow at the end of the onslip telling you not to turn right, which to me always says "lane gain".
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Bryn666 »

I like the yellow hard shoulder marking.

What I don't like is the haphazard inconsistencies in arrows and other road markings though!
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by AndyB »

NI has NRT on onslips as well, it's probably where they got the idea. At some N11 junctions, there is a pair of No U-turn signs - correct way round on the onslip, reversed on the mainline.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by nowster »

nirs wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:27 Since we're on the subject of lines, I also dislike the way the dashed line on an onslip in RoI disappears before the lane merge ends.
Common practice (or practise) on US highways.
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