Irl: Road Widening schemes

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Enceladus
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Enceladus »

c2R wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 23:07
Chris_533976 wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 21:23
Euan wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 06:39

The environmental challenges and concerns at Glen of the Downs might be the reason the N11 has not been designated as motorway (M11) between Bray and Coynes Cross. This will end up as the only gap in the M11 all the way to beyond Enniscorthy once the new motorway is complete.
Nah, from driving it many many times, that entire N11 section is way below motorway spec. Poor sightlines, poor vertical alignment, junctions everywhere and lots of local access.

I must admit I'd always been fascinated that the N11 route down the coast was being upgraded and converted to motorway, despite the difficulties through Wicklow, when it surely would be easier to link the Rosslare to dublin by improving the N80 to motorway standard and push more money at Naas to Dublin, or perhaps invest in the far outer orbital motorway instead...



The major problem with your suggestion is that the M7 and N7 takes most of the traffic from the South, Southwest (via M7 and M8) and Waterford/Kilkenny (via M9) which is a huge chunk of the population of the country and the existing road is pretty much overloaded, thus the widening schemes.

The N/M11 is very useful as the primary route from Dublin to Rosslare port, Wexford and it can also serve as an alternative route to Waterford via the N30. I think the Glen Of The Downs will remain a pinch point on this route for the foreseeable future.
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murphaph
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by murphaph »

odlum wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 23:42 Another option could be to merge the M4 and M7 in to one motorway that connects to the M50 killing two birds with one stone.
The original plans for the M50 made provision for the N7 to be bypassed and join the M50 here: [gmap]https://www.google.de/maps/@53.3355743, ... a=!3m1!1e3[/gmap]

You can see however that the reserved alignment has recently been built on just west of that spot as the idea was binned in favour of upgrading the N7. This is incidentally where J8 on the M50 would have been.

I'm not sure what advantage merging the M7 and M4 would have though...surely it's better to have more redundancy than route everything through one alignment.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Euan »

murphaph wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 08:30 I'm not sure what advantage merging the M7 and M4 would have though...surely it's better to have more redundancy than route everything through one alignment.
Well that does make some sense, don't forget the M4 and M7 have themselves merged with the M6 and the M8 respectively by the time they have reached the outskirts of Dublin. That would mean virtually all of the west and south west coast traffic coming from places like Cork, Limerick and Galway would be merged into a single transport corridor which would, without a doubt, be a highly congested one.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Bryn666 »

Now Newlands Cross is fixed is there anything insurmountable preventing the redesignation of the Naas Road to M7?

Okay I suspect it being an online upgrade in the 50s means there's no old road as such but how many tractors etc commute into Dublin? No doubt Ireland will ultimately follow our lead in allowing L drivers on motorways too.

Easy to build a cycle route and footpath adjacent to the corridor though.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 08:57 Now Newlands Cross is fixed is there anything insurmountable preventing the redesignation of the Naas Road to M7?

Okay I suspect it being an online upgrade in the 50s means there's no old road as such but how many tractors etc commute into Dublin? No doubt Ireland will ultimately follow our lead in allowing L drivers on motorways too.

Easy to build a cycle route and footpath adjacent to the corridor though.
It does feel a very nasty, congested piece of road to drive, even with the improvements in recent years... There's also still property access such as here: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2905457 ... 312!8i6656 and substandard LILOs, like J3a.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Bryn666 »

Ah yes. A little more work needed then.

I need to get myself over there again. I've not been on the N7/M7 route.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Euan »

Presumably the N6 Athlone bypass must have similar barriers towards motorway designation - it is now the only gap in the entire M6 between Galway and Kinnegad.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Bryn666 »

Euan wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:19 Presumably the N6 Athlone bypass must have similar barriers towards motorway designation - it is now the only gap in the entire M6 between Galway and Kinnegad.
From my experience Athlone doesn't seem to have any logical reason to not be a motorway - functionally it's no different to the M6 either side. Most weird that one.
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bothar
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by bothar »

Euan wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:19 Presumably the N6 Athlone bypass must have similar barriers towards motorway designation - it is now the only gap in the entire M6 between Galway and Kinnegad.
Engineering wise the Ahlone bypass is largely suitable. The concern was for non motorway agricultural traffic wishing to cross the Shannon, the town centre bridge isn't an ideal place for this either. Eventually, Athlone will get another bridge and then perhaps it can be upgraded.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

A study was done on the feasibility of redesignating the N7 to motorway in 2015. Apparently it found it will be expensive to do. Some new alignments would be needed + private access removed. I could be wrong but I think a new service area is already being built off-line which will take care of existing online services?

They seem to working anticlockwise on this. The M2 and M3 are to get direct unimpeded connections to the M50 next.

That will be M1/2/3 sorted.

Both the M4 and M7 are much bigger jobs. A lot of work to be done.

M11 is already directly connected.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Johnathan404 »

Are M50 connections really that important?

There are two issues with the Dublin region strategic road network:
1) "It takes too long to get across the country". Only a second M50 will solve that, any isolated junction improvements will simply move the queue along.
2) "It takes too long to get to work". Where should they be going? There seems to be no agreed strategy. BusConnects and Metro North, while it's good to see some ambitious planning, are only creating more question marks for the time being.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by bothar »

odlum wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:15 A study was done on the feasibility of redesignating the N7 to motorway in 2015. Apparently it found it will be expensive to do. Some new alignments would be needed + private access removed. I could be wrong but I think a new service area is already being built off-line which will take care of existing online services?

They seem to working anticlockwise on this. The M2 and M3 are to get direct unimpeded connections to the M50 next.

That will be M1/2/3 sorted.

Both the M4 and M7 are much bigger jobs. A lot of work to be done.

M11 is already directly connected.
The M2 should be easiest. All that is needed is clear path for non motorway traffic from the city side R135 to the stump of the old N2 on other side of the M50.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

Johnathan404 wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:14 Are M50 connections really that important?

There are two issues with the Dublin region strategic road network:
1) "It takes too long to get across the country". Only a second M50 will solve that, any isolated junction improvements will simply move the queue along.
2) "It takes too long to get to work". Where should they be going? There seems to be no agreed strategy. BusConnects and Metro North, while it's good to see some ambitious planning, are only creating more question marks for the time being.
I think it is important on 2 points - 1. Consistency of network and signage, and 2. Protection of the road. Far easier to guarantee no council going rouge on a main route by simply making it a motorway.

I'm in favor of the second ring but I think the current trouble points should be mopped up first, there is not very many left in reality is there on the radial routes from the M50? The M11 pinch point at the Glen of the Downs is, I would argue, the biggest.

As bothar says - M2 is very simple - just requires a single bridge or underpass to provide alternate local route. M3 is actually already underway with the junction upgrades then a third lane to be added.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

December 2018, M7 upgrade J9 - J11 (M9)



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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Euan »

It makes perfect sense to widen the M7 at Naas given that by that point the M7 from Limerick, the M8 from Cork and the M9 from Waterford have all merged into one motorway carrying all of the traffic between Dublin and those three cities. I do wonder had the M7 been built in more recent times whether it would have been built to D3M width straight away, in particular the Naas bypass which is the south's oldest stretch of motorway.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

Probably would be D3M from the start. Some of the medians are if anything slightly wider than needed for D3M too, hence the need for two concrete barriers in the center with a space in between. The old days when land was cheap.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by bothar »

odlum wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 21:57 Probably would be D3M from the start. Some of the medians are if anything slightly wider than needed for D3M too, hence the need for two concrete barriers in the center with a space in between. The old days when land was cheap.
Building a D3m on a largely S2 route would not have been appropriate when the D2m did perfectly well for 25 years.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by odlum »

Euan's point was if it was built today...
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Bryn666 »

Hopefully lane discipline will be enforced as our side of the Irish Sea has nothing but problems with middle lane morons.
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Re: Irl: Road Widening schemes

Post by Berk »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 09:44 Hopefully lane discipline will be enforced as our side of the Irish Sea has nothing but problems with middle lane morons.
Middle lane hogging isn’t one of the “fatal 4”...
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