UK to get first Dutch-style roundabout in Cambridge

[B1040]

Potential 3 give ways for motorised traffic. That could lead to long queues if there are
a lot of NMUs.
This could result in delays, impatience, rat runs minor accidents or even anti-cyclist sentiments.

As I said before, in what way is it worse than a traditional and common setup where there are zebra crossings a few metres from the circulation on each entry and exit?

I don't think the traditional system is that great either. Telling cyclists they have right of way will probably lead to a tragedy when they don't watch conflicting traffic whereas few pedestrians expect instant compliance at a zebra crossing.

[Chris5156]

Telling cyclists they have right of way will probably lead to a tragedy when they don't watch conflicting traffic whereas few pedestrians expect instant compliance at a zebra crossing.

Cyclists are also pedestrians, and most of them are also drivers. If you trust a driver to continue looking for conflicts when they are given priority, and you trust pedestrians to use their right of way at a zebra crossing with caution, why do you think those same people will lose all their senses when they mount a bicycle?

If any tragedy is to happen because a road user fails to properly observe what’s happening it will be a motorist, who is conditioned to expect that every other type of road user will stop to let them through and who fails to look far enough beyond the brake lights of the car in front to understand what’s expected of them at an unfamiliar junction. Indeed the initial anecdotal reports in this thread so far, and elsewhere, are of drivers failing to stop at the crossing points (and even knocking over the street furniture), not cyclists misusing it.

[c2R]

Potential 3 give ways for motorised traffic. That could lead to long queues if there are
a lot of NMUs.
This could result in delays, impatience, rat runs minor accidents or even anti-cyclist sentiments.

That no different to too many pedestrians using a zebra crossing. I'd expect that if that were to become a problem, then signalisation would need to occur to separate competing flows.

[Jim606]

Whilst there are likely to be 'teething problems', this roundabout does represent something new in the UK. Cambridge has always been a city with a high proportion of cyclists and has a very active cycle campaign group (with I believe paid members?). The last time I went to the city I walked along Hills Road and looked at the new stepped cycletracks. The flow of cyclists in that part of the city was literally - a constant 'one after another'. This new Dutch-style roundabout is therefore likely to be well used. This should help placate detractors and help establish it as a success.

Looking at it more closely, I would have liked to have seen more chamfered or forgiving kerbs, whilst they're some, the ones on the inside could have been slightly different. Also, I am not sure of the width of the cycleway re; overtaking and if any network of connecting paths is planned or will the roundabout stand in isolation? However, these points should not take away from what has been achieved. A fully fledged Dutch-style roundabout in the UK and hopefully the first of many.

Finally, to quote David Hembrow, (former Cambridge resident) who moved to the Netherlands to start his famous cycling infra blog once said;

The Dutch found that the only thing which really encouraged cycling was a dense network of high quality cycling infrastructure

[c2R]

Whilst there are likely to be 'teething problems', this roundabout does represent something new in the UK. Cambridge has always been a city with a high proportion of cyclists and has a very active cycle campaign group (with I believe paid members?). The last time I went to the city I walked along Hills Road and looked at the new stepped cycletracks. The flow of cyclists in that part of the city was literally - a constant 'one after another'. This new Dutch-style roundabout is therefore likely to be well used. This should help placate detractors and help establish it as a success.

Looking at it more closely, I would have liked to have seen more chamfered or forgiving kerbs, whilst they're some, the ones on the inside could have been slightly different. Also, I am not sure of the width of the cycleway re; overtaking and if any network of connecting paths is planned or will the roundabout stand in isolation? However, these points should not take away from what has been achieved. A fully fledged Dutch-style roundabout in the UK and hopefully the first of many.

Finally, to quote David Hembrow, (former Cambridge resident) who moved to the Netherlands to start his famous cycling infra blog once said;

The Dutch found that the only thing which really encouraged cycling was a dense network of high quality cycling infrastructure

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

[medgoode]

I had to visit Addenbrooke's Hospital this morning and decided to drive, so deliberately chose my route to go through the new roundabout there and back.

On my journey there it was a bit disappointing to see a cyclist using the roundabout as though she was a car. It makes me wonder whether she didn't trust the outer circle for cyclists or (less likely) didn't realise she could use the part for cyclists. Just to be clear I'm not criticising her choice, but I am more interested in why this choice was made and whether had any part of the design been different would she have made a different choice.

In my return journey I saw a cyclist using it as intended without any problems, but traffic was light.

My overall impression is that it has been well done and has signs beforehand stating that cyclists and pedestrians have priority. It does require more attention and as a driver you need to resist the urge to accelerate as you might normally do when leaving a roundabout. The roads markings and street furniture do alert you to the fact that there is a crossing as you leave the roundabout.

I'm not sure if it's been noted here already, but the roundabout is now inside a 20 mph zone whereas I don't think it was before. The signs and road markings suggest this was added with the roundabout.

[Debaser]

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

I believe the 'superhighways' in London are often used by the police, ambulances and fire and rescue vehicles to avoid congestion. I'm beginning to wonder if 'proper' cycling infrastructure would be more acceptable if it was also marketed as for emergency use, so as to be designed with sufficient width.

[ManomayLR]

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

I believe the 'superhighways' in London are often used by the police, ambulances and fire and rescue vehicles to avoid congestion. I'm beginning to wonder if 'proper' cycling infrastructure would be more acceptable if it was also marketed as for emergency use, so as to be designed with sufficient width.

No motorized vehicle should be using cycle lanes on pavements, under any circumstances.

[c2R]

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

I believe the 'superhighways' in London are often used by the police, ambulances and fire and rescue vehicles to avoid congestion. I'm beginning to wonder if 'proper' cycling infrastructure would be more acceptable if it was also marketed as for emergency use, so as to be designed with sufficient width.

No motorized vehicle should be using cycle lanes on pavements, under any circumstances.

I disagree - any blue light call should be able to use whatever safe means necessary - I would want a paramedic on a call to be able to access the grade separated cycle infrastructure in Stevenage, for example, to be able to get to someone that's been injured or police to use them to chase a mugger.... If I needed treatment at a hospital and was being blue lighted there, I would want it to get there as quickly and safely as possible, as I'm sure would you.

[Al__S]

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

Sadly the roundabout on Hills Road/Fendon Road/Hospital entrance was refurbished (mainly new signals) a couple of years ago, funded by one of the Biomedical Campus building projects and required as a planning permission condition. Because of the way it was required and funded it was subject to extraordinarily little scrutiny and so they go away with merely "not making it worse" rather than "vastly improving it" but also almost certainly locked it out of any improvements for the next decade or more. I think if the Dutch were to do it they would replace that junction with a signalised one (I don't think they do signalised roundabouts; certainly i don't think they would install one!)

[Debaser]

I agree with all of the above - hopefully we'll see something improvement at the next roundabout along immediately outside Addenbrooke's next - although this would most likely need to be a singalised variant given the multitude of conflicting movements - I'd also like to see better ambulance prioritisation along these approaches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1768157 ... 384!8i8192

Sadly the roundabout on Hills Road/Fendon Road/Hospital entrance was refurbished (mainly new signals) a couple of years ago, funded by one of the Biomedical Campus building projects and required as a planning permission condition. Because of the way it was required and funded it was subject to extraordinarily little scrutiny and so they go away with merely "not making it worse" rather than "vastly improving it" but also almost certainly locked it out of any improvements for the next decade or more. I think if the Dutch were to do it they would replace that junction with a signalised one (I don't think they do signalised roundabouts; certainly i don't think they would install one!)

Not the safest layout!

If there were the opportunity to go back and rectify this the simplest way would be something like Figure 10.39 (p123) here.

[Al__S]

Not the safest layout!

If there were the opportunity to go back and rectify this the simplest way would be something like Figure 10.39 (p123) here.

If you go onto the roundabout proper you'll see that they've updated the lights, given the cycle lanes and ASL boxes a red tarmac layer and made the entire footway shared use. But on the Fendon Road arm the controlled crossing is somewhat distant

[Jim606]

Going back to the Fendon Road roundabout, another thing which springs to mind is the scheme is actually quite 'good looking'. Apart from a few minor quibbles and the fact it will probably take a bit of 'getting used to', it is a fully transposed Dutch design. This really is a noticeable thing for the UK, after all the previous attempts. If the roundabout proves to be successful, then others are likely to follow. Hence the related discussion about other locations in Cambridge. High quality design can enhance and encourage social interaction. There is a difference in how people see the world from the saddle of a bicycle, as opposed to the driving seat of a vehicle. There is the a more tangible feel to the surroundings and seeing other people in a more direct way. There is also the growing world of cycle-chic as coined by Micheal-Colville-Andersen and his fellow Dane's Jan Gehl's design-and-the-social-experience-of-bicycling.

[c2R]

Does this roundabout have an actual name - it's something we _should_ add to the wiki, as it's particularly notable.

[Jim606]

Does this roundabout have an actual name - it's something we _should_ add to the wiki, as it's particularly notable.

According to the Cambs. CC. website it's called Fendon-Road-&-Queen-Edith's-Way-roundabout

[c2R]

Does this roundabout have an actual name - it's something we _should_ add to the wiki, as it's particularly notable.

According to the Cambs. CC. website it's called Fendon-Road-&-Queen-Edith's-Way-roundabout

Cheers. That's a rubbish name, but I suppose it describes it accurately...

[crb11]

Unfortunately it's in a residential area with nothing of interest nearby. I've heard it called just the Fendon Road roundabout (on traffic reports) - this is unambiguous as the one at the other end is always called the Addenbrooke's roundabout. Undoubtedly it'll now get called the Dutch roundabout, unless or until they build some more.

[Jim606]

Unfortunately it's in a residential area with nothing of interest nearby. I've heard it called just the Fendon Road roundabout (on traffic reports) - this is unambiguous as the one at the other end is always called the Addenbrooke's roundabout. Undoubtedly it'll now get called the Dutch roundabout, unless or until they build some more.

I am sure the roundabout will be closely monitored 'to see how it goes'. This is why they have probably gone for a fairly standard residential area before building other ones.

I've watched the various videos closely & still like the look and feel of the project. This review certainly points towards that fact: Cambridge-News-Fendon-Road-roundabout-review

I’ve now been through this roundabout a number of times, on foot, on a bicycle, and in a car. Crossing the roundabout as a pedestrian is so much safer than it used to be. There used to be tiny little islands in the middle of the roadway where you had to cross to. There was no priority for people walking, and there were cars thundering around the roundabout at high speed not expecting to have to stop because somebody wanted to walk to work.

On a bicycle it is almost dreamy now. You move away from those motor vehicles and move around the roundabout at your own speed. There is no feeling that you have go faster to keep up with the heavy traffic, and no feeling that you have to get off and cross like a pedestrian. Yes, you have to look out for vehicles who may not stop, but that is so much easier when you are crossing at right angles to each other than when you are in somebody’s blind spot.

In a car it is also simple. You slow down to 20 mph, as required by the speed limit. You give way to the people walking or cycling across your lane. You then give way to the people driving around the roundabout, without worrying about failing to see a vulnerable road user.

Cyclists on Fendon Road 'Dutch-style' roundabout. Image c/o Cambridge News

Fendon Road roundabout from above. Image c/o Cambridge News

[c2R]

I wonder if there was any particular reason why red tactile paving is beign used for pedestrians rather than yellow?

[Bryn666]

I wonder if there was any particular reason why red tactile paving is beign used for pedestrians rather than yellow?

Buff is for uncontrolled crossings, and red is for controlled ones by convention. Mixing that up on a new layout like this would be a fast track to a lawsuit.

The contrast between pedestrian areas and tactile paving is obvious, and that is where it is needed. It's of no concern to a passing cyclist, they have to stop before the stripes regardless.