UK to get first Dutch-style roundabout in Cambridge

[AndyB]

That's a good point, actually, because the police are never going to accept the jaywalking excuse if you hit someone you could reasonably have avoided.

I think the effect of the Highway Code is that if you are changing direction, you are expected to give precedence to those who are not.

[Jim606]

Another reason town centre shopping is dwindling then, as more and more motorists avoid town centres with roads starting to favour NMUs!
Why don't we just close towns and cities to cars with giant car parks at the edge! Very impractical! Another idea would be to rebuild entire towns from scratch with cycle infrastructure built in, again impractical and very expensive and totally disruptive, but highlights that none of what we have works for the traffic and traffic types we have! There needs to be a better way to solve this! Currently it favours NMUs previously it favoured motorists, the answer must be somewhere between the two, but a LOT more money needs to be invested to make it work for everyone. Until authorities are willing to invest, perhaps they should leave things as they are.

Town centre shopping is declining for a number of reasons, principally the internet & as for NMU's it depends what you mean? Here in Colchester, the Borough Council & Essex CC have invested millions in P&R and bus lanes, but very little in cycling infra. In fact, practically any investment they do make in cycling tends to be rubbish or lumps cyclists with buses which isn't ideal. So, to say that local councils favour NMUs isn't the full story.

Do you have any idea how many people cycle in Cambridge? It is very much a case of catering for large volumes of people who already do cycle. The measures already built in London demonstrate that people are not unwilling to cycle. In the rush hour some of the Cycle Superhighway junctions in Westminster are now beyond capacity. On my way to work the platoons of cyclists coming down the road outside my building - which has no cycle infrastructure at all, not so much as a painted cycle lane - can take 20-30 seconds to pass. Building cycle infrastructure in a city like London or Cambridge is not encouraging the unwilling, it's providing for suppressed demand.

I've seen the new cycle paths on Hills Road in Cambridge and it's literally one cyclist after another using them. I've not seen them at different times of the day but, I guess even outside of peak times it's a constant stream of people going by. I guess the proposed Dutch-style roundabout will be the same.

[Peter Freeman]

Melbourne Australia is also getting this bike-friendly style of roundabout. The first one (of a pair on one busy street) has just been commissioned.
https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/about-th ... roundabout
https://augbr.net/2018/06/27/a-look-at- ... melbourne/

edit -
I went to have a look at these. Both finished. Nicely done. Very similar layouts to the UK trial and some Dutch ones. With our few bicycle riders, who will probably just ignore them, they're a complete waste of money.

[Jim606]

This artist's image has recently appeared on twitter re; a new cycling friendly roundabout planned for Manchester. I guess it is part of Chris Boardman and Manchester City Council's 'Beelines' project but, I am afraid I don't know anymore details?

Manchester 'Dutch-style' roundabout

[Berk]

It seems very generous with the number of crossings. Is a diagonal one completely necessary?? All directions are already covered by the other crossings.

Also, if a cyclist is going “straight on”, what is the planners recommended course of action for the cyclist to take?? I bet it’s ‘take the first left, cross the road, right, and left back again’.

I can’t see many cyclists doing that, they’ll just queue up with all the cars going straight on. Only they can’t filter back into the cycle lane, as someone has helpfully put a crossing island and bollards there to filter cyclists out of the traffic lanes.

Maybe they’ll go straight cross the junction, and cross over to the left of the island - cycling on the wrong side, in order to do so. Who’ll get blame for that, I wonder?? The motorist who’s on the right side of the road??

[c2R]

It seems very generous with the number of crossings. Is a diagonal one completely necessary?? All directions are already covered by the other crossings.

Hmm, I think there's a bit much colour and street furniture there...

Re: diagonal crossings - it depends if all pedestrian phases are green at once - there's a junction I was walking through at the weekend where this was the case, and it would have been useful if a diagonal crossing was marked out to give an immediate clue that you coudld do this and therefore reduce the time it takes a pedestrian to cross through the junction...

[Euan]

It does seem quite odd that one of the diagonally opposite pairs of corners has a pedestrian crossing linking them while the other does not. Any pedestrians wishing to reach the front-right corner from the rear-left corner in the picture or vice versa will still need to use at least two crossings to pass the junction.

[Al__S]

crucially, that's a signal controlled crossroads, not a roundabout

[Debaser]

It seems very generous with the number of crossings. Is a diagonal one completely necessary?? All directions are already covered by the other crossings.

It surely shows how badly we treat non-motorists when a single direct crossing is regarded as being 'very generous'.

Also, if a cyclist is going “straight on”, what is the planners recommended course of action for the cyclist to take?? I bet it’s ‘take the first left, cross the road, right, and left back again’.

Cyclists using the off-road facility will presumably give-way to peds where there's a mini-zebra, proceed to the cycle-specific lights, cross the side road when they get green and then carry on their way. More or less as they would on-road, but hopefully without the intimidation, close-passing, verbal abuse, etc., etc..

[M19]

This artist's image has recently appeared on twitter re; a new cycling friendly roundabout planned for Manchester. I guess it is part of Chris Boardman and Manchester City Council's 'Beelines' project but, I am afraid I don't know anymore details?

DsJCFWDXQAELHKG.jpg

Looks like someone broke into the thermoplastic depot and vandalised the nearest junction. Hardly aesthetic in a way that is attractive to peds and bikes.

[Viator]

This artist's image has recently appeared on twitter re; a new cycling friendly roundabout planned for Manchester. I guess it is part of Chris Boardman and Manchester City Council's 'Beelines' project but, I am afraid I don't know anymore details?

DsJCFWDXQAELHKG.jpg

Pedestrian routes INSIDE the cycle paths certainly do not a "Dutch roundabout" make, however. This mock-up shows what a UK version of the genuine article would look like (due allowance made for the importation of "sharks' teeth" give-way lines): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22347184
(Apologies if this video has been posted before.)

[Micro The Maniac]

When I joined the M4 from the M5, traffic was at a crawl, and speed limits of 30mph were in operation (note: the article I had read made no mention of 30mph limits). The traffic crawled along for a couple of miles, until everyone who was heading into Bristol had filtered off onto the M32. At this point, the M4 lanes started to speed up. My first reaction was to increase my speed along with everyone else, but then I remembered that the official speed limit was still 30mph, and there was one gantry up ahead still flashing that limit. I forced myself to slow down, as every single car ahead of me disappeared into the distance.

We have a similar situation with SMART motorways... where a lane is closed (usually the near-side, effectively reinstating the hard-shoulder) the matrix signs usually show the big red X (and lower limits) for several signs after the hazard has been passed - and where there is no requirement or justification for the restrictions to remain.

I'm a regular user of the M3 SMART sections and it is very frustrating how often unnecessary restrictions are in place.

[Bryn666]

It seems very generous with the number of crossings. Is a diagonal one completely necessary?? All directions are already covered by the other crossings.

It surely shows how badly we treat non-motorists when a single direct crossing is regarded as being 'very generous'.

Also, if a cyclist is going “straight on”, what is the planners recommended course of action for the cyclist to take?? I bet it’s ‘take the first left, cross the road, right, and left back again’.

Cyclists using the off-road facility will presumably give-way to peds where there's a mini-zebra, proceed to the cycle-specific lights, cross the side road when they get green and then carry on their way. More or less as they would on-road, but hopefully without the intimidation, close-passing, verbal abuse, etc., etc..

Driver entitlement syndrome unfortunately.

This is a planned cycle route avoiding Princess Road and I fully welcome it as it connects areas with low car ownership and provides a safe route.

The crossings don't need to be coloured in red but that's a Manchester city council thing to draw attention to their presence.

[Arcuarius]

The crossings don't need to be coloured in red but that's a Manchester city council thing to draw attention to their presence.

Off-topic but Notts CC have decided to take it upon themselves to paint cycleways around junctions with what appears to be a glossy bright green, and adorn the bits across the front of the separation islands with 'elephants' feet' markings.

Next time I'm around that way I'll try and take a photo.

[Bryn666]

Elephant feet markings are once again prescribed, of course, but they should follow the actual route rather than incorporating the entirety of an island.

[FleetlinePhil]

It does seem quite odd that one of the diagonally opposite pairs of corners has a pedestrian crossing linking them while the other does not. Any pedestrians wishing to reach the front-right corner from the rear-left corner in the picture or vice versa will still need to use at least two crossings to pass the junction.

Wetherspoons is situated along the road to the right of the the rear-right corner, thus obviously requiring safe pedestrian access to all three roads on the way back

[Johnathan404]

My only issue with that picture (other than the garish colours) is that the signals are too far back, presumably to save on poles. People are going to overrun the stopline.

[Arcuarius]

Elephant feet markings are once again prescribed, of course, but they should follow the actual route rather than incorporating the entirety of an island.

Of course, it's just their application that's the problem. Any other authority would have used half-length 1004 markings.

[Berk]

My only issue with that picture (other than the garish colours) is that the signals are too far back, presumably to save on poles. People are going to overrun the stopline.

It’s only a reflection of existing practice. But instead of having empty space, or a cyclist quick-start zone (no idea what the official term is), it’s occupied by a pedestrian crossing.

Also, if a cyclist is going “straight on”, what is the planners recommended course of action for the cyclist to take?? I bet it’s ‘take the first left, cross the road, right, and left back again’.

Cyclists using the off-road facility will presumably give-way to peds where there's a mini-zebra, proceed to the cycle-specific lights, cross the side road when they get green and then carry on their way. More or less as they would on-road, but hopefully without the intimidation, close-passing, verbal abuse, etc., etc..

Driver entitlement syndrome unfortunately.

This is a planned cycle route avoiding Princess Road and I fully welcome it as it connects areas with low car ownership and provides a safe route.

Seriously, though, how can you ensure that cyclists obey the rules, and follow the crossing precisely, rather than mixing it with cars across the junction and crossing wrong side back to the cycle lane??

[Debaser]

Seriously, though, how can you ensure that cyclists obey the rules, and follow the crossing precisely, rather than mixing it with cars across the junction and crossing wrong side back to the cycle lane??

We can't. But then we can't ensure drivers obey the rules about red, red/amber and amber all meaning stop (if they even know that).

As I have said before, think of current cyclists as the outliers, the 1 or 2% of the population comfortable enough to ride along with vehicles much heavier and faster than themselves. The ones who will take risks. The Audi drivers of the cycling world.

These facilities are for everyone else, the people who would like to cycle but are too scared by those motor vehicles to do so. The ones we have designed out of the transport system over generations. The (law-abiding) majority, if you will.